Building a Buck - Which Steel?

adrock1978 · Sep 28, 2009

My brother really liked my Alpha Hunter, so I decided I'd build him a custom one for a gift. When I bought mine, I didn't have a choice, and I ended up with 154CM. If given the choice though between 154CM, S30V or 420HC which should I go with? Is one of them "best" or do they have different advantages?

edit - How about ATS-34? They dont seem to offer that in the custom version.

chickentrax · Sep 28, 2009

adrock1978 said:
My brother really liked my Alpha Hunter, so I decided I'd build him a custom one for a gift. When I bought mine, I didn't have a choice, and I ended up with 154CM. If given the choice though between 154CM, S30V or 420HC which should I go with? Is one of them "best" or do they have different advantages?

edit - How about ATS-34? They dont seem to offer that in the custom version.

My personal preference among those is the S30V...There used to be a guy who abused Buck knifes here but I haven't seen his posts lately...he'd put a blade in a vise and try to snap it...or see if it would bend...then he'd hammer it into a tree...all kinds of "tests"...

Maybe 334dave or DarrylS remember who he was...he had a site with his "conclusions", IIRC...

imafritz · Sep 28, 2009

adrock,
They all have advtages and disadvantages. The s30v is considered the premium, followed by 154CM and then 420hc-premiums hold egde longer but are more time and skill intensive to sharpen. I believe I've seen ats34 available on ebay before but couldnt swear to it. Mine is 154cm and I love it.

Buck_110 · Sep 28, 2009

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sharp dude · Sep 28, 2009

iirc
why - would a real buck basher's results influence any one with
'steel' snobbery?
why worry of the source of steel anyway?
once it is here there is no way to tell if
real American steel is used or not
it is all marked to SELL to steel snobs..
in japan 440 is used as table ware !

Plumberdv · Sep 28, 2009

I'm about to show my ignorance, but what does "IIRC" mean?

Flatlander1963 · Sep 28, 2009

If I recall correctly.

You can google it and a Acronymn Definer pops up. Pretty handy with all the texting acronymns coming into regular comunication.

adrock1978 · Sep 28, 2009

imafritz said:
adrock,
They all have advtages and disadvantages. The s30v is considered the premium, followed by 154CM and then 420hc-premiums hold egde longer but are more time and skill intensive to sharpen. I believe I've seen ats34 available on ebay before but couldnt swear to it. Mine is 154cm and I love it.

Wow, one informative answer out of six. Thanks!

Thats kind of what I thought. I dont mind a little extra effort when sharpening. I have a decent system, so if edge retention is the bonus I'll go with that.

sharp dude said:
iirc
why - would a real buck basher's results influence any one with
'steel' snobbery?
why worry of the source of steel anyway?
once it is here there is no way to tell if
real American steel is used or not
it is all marked to SELL to steel snobs..
in japan 440 is used as table ware !

I really have no idea what you're talking about, but thanks for coming out.

imafritz · Sep 28, 2009

Plumberdv said:
I'm about to show my ignorance, but what does "IIRC" mean?

Boy Plum thanks for asking that. I've been wanting to ask that for months. Youre a better man than I(my wife will attest to that)

DarrylS · Sep 28, 2009

chickentrax said:
My personal preference among those is the S30V...There used to be a guy who abused Buck knifes here but I haven't seen his posts lately...he'd put a blade in a vise and try to snap it...or see if it would bend...then he'd hammer it into a tree...all kinds of "tests"...

Maybe 334dave or DarrylS remember who he was...he had a site with his "conclusions", IIRC...

...I still prefer the BG-42 and 440C steels that Buck used. They both hold up and take an edge like no other steels IMHO...IF you can get the edge...LOL...

I believe it was nozh2002 (Vasilli) who used to do comparisons of the sharpness and performance of different steels of different knives. He was the gent who photographed a hair that he "filleted" into about 4 sections while holding the hair in his hand.

It was noss4, however, who abused and destroyed various knives to compare how they held up in a sometimes unrealistic world. He would go on to record the results on video. If I'm not mistaken, his videos could still be found on YouTube...

Plumberdv · Sep 28, 2009

imafritz said:
Boy Plum thanks for asking that. I've been wanting to ask that for months. Youre a better man than I(my wife will attest to that)

Did you look it up? I did and I'm surprised that it hadn't occured to me before.

Buck_110 · Sep 28, 2009

deleted

adrock1978 · Sep 28, 2009

Great, now I have 10 replies and the same 1 useful answer. Can anyone else comment on the steels LISTED and those available from Buck currently. Not some steel they used to offer or some dude bending a knife in a vice on youtube.

Josh K · Sep 28, 2009

adrock1978 said:
Great, now I have 10 replies and the same 1 useful answer. Can anyone else comment on the steels LISTED and those available from Buck currently. Not some steel they used to offer or some dude bending a knife in a vice on youtube.

In order of stainless (best to worst): S30V 420HC 154CM
In order of toughness (best to worst): S30V 154CM 420HC
In order of edge retention (best to worst): S30V 154CM 420HC
In order of ease of sharpening (best to worst): 420HC 154CM S30V

S30V is the toughest and most stainless, with the best edge retention. If your friend isn't all that good at sharpening that might be a problem.

154CM is a great all around player. Stainless, good even carbide volume, relatively easy to sharpen.

420HC is very stainless, with the worst (of of those three) edge retention, but very easy to resharpen.

ATS-34 is the Japanese version of 154CM.

samhain73 · Sep 28, 2009

420 is way tougher than S30V. You can bend 420HC, and blank it. That's why it's so easy to sharpen. .

Josh K · Sep 28, 2009

samhain73 said:
420 is way tougher than S30V. You can bend 420HC, and blank it. That's why it's so easy to sharpen. .

CPM S30V offers substantial improvement in toughness over other high hardness steels such as 440C and D2, and its corrosion resistance is equal to or better than 440C in various environments.

From http://www.dougritter.com/pop_up_cpms30v.htm

I was under the impression that 440C (being the first "super steel") was tougher then 420HC and more stainless.

samhain73 · Sep 28, 2009

440C has more carbides, like the size of D2, not 420HC, which is a fine grained steel. 420 is super tough, but the wear resistance isn't that great.

adrock1978 · Sep 28, 2009

samhain73 said:
420 is way tougher than S30V. You can bend 420HC, and blank it. That's why it's so easy to sharpen. .

Very good info Josh. Thanks. Sam, you seem to disagree. Care to explain further?

samhain73 · Sep 28, 2009

Just did.

But in a custom folder, I would go with the S30V, since it won't be beaten on, and in a small clip point hollow ground blade, wear resistance should be more important than toughness anyway. And Buck's S30V is about as good as it gets.

Josh K · Sep 28, 2009

samhain73 said:
440C has more carbides, like the size of D2, not 420HC, which is a fine grained steel. 420 is super tough, but the wear resistance isn't that great.

Fine grained doesn't always mean tougher. 420HC has a high level of chromium (I'm looking for the exact composition now), mixing with carbon to product carbides.

http://cutleryscience.com/reviews/blade_materials.html#S_420HC

Carbon Manganese Chromium Nickel Silicon HRC
0.4-0.5 1.0 12-14 0.5 0.6 55-58

Assuming Buck uses the best 420HC available and heat treats it to a high hardness (detrimental to toughness) you have a blade with 0.5% carbon, and 14% chromium.

My personal experiences with 420HC (several Buck fixed blades) have not led me to believe it's "super tough" at all.