Building own forge

Been a while since I looked at this thread, thanks for all the replies. The mathewson and atlas Hellfire would be the two prebuilt im considering. Once shipping is included, they are similar prices and both ~$50 more than building my own. I think I may go that route just because it takes the guessing out. Any recommendations on which of the two is better?
 
ricardo Z said:
Been a while since I looked at this thread, thanks for all the replies. The mathewson and atlas Hellfire would be the two prebuilt im considering. Once shipping is included, they are similar prices and both ~$50 more than building my own. I think I may go that route just because it takes the guessing out. Any recommendations on which of the two is better?
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I personally own two atlas forges, the mini and dual burner hellfire and they are both great forged. In my opinion I think the atlas looks better made, and Charles does a really good job with his customer service.
 
If I had to pick between the two, I'd go with the atlas. It at least comes with some materials to line the inswool. The mathewson does claim to be ridgidized but, IMO, just a rigidizer is not enough. You are going to bump into the side of that forge with your blade and it's going to poke a hole right thru the rigidizer. It's better to have a more resilient shell to help protect the inswool.

Both of those are what I would call "blacksmith" forges. The burners are not pointing in such a way to help even the heat out in the forge. In other words, you're going to have hot spots and also some risk of excess oxidation with your blade sitting directly in the line of action of those burners. Most bladesmith forges, you'll notice the burners coming in at a tangent to the interior chamber to promote flame swirl. Atlas sells the atlas mini and the graham that are bladesmith style.

Any of them will heat up metal though. Just my $0.02.
 
Killgore said:
Both of those are what I would call "blacksmith" forges. The burners are not pointing in such a way to help even the heat out in the forge. In other words, you're going to have hot spots and also some risk of excess oxidation with your blade sitting directly in the line of action of those burners. Most bladesmith forges, you'll notice the burners coming in at a tangent to the interior chamber to promote flame swirl. Atlas sells the atlas mini and the graham that are bladesmith style.
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I knew the mathewson was not a bladesmith forge, but it looked like the hellfire had it pointing down and at an angle. The mini just seems too small and the graham is quite expensive. If hot spots become an issue, would cutting a new hole and putting the burner at an angle fix it?
 
It is pointing down and at an angle, yes. Which puts it pointing right down at your work area. The bladesmith ones usually come it at the top, at a tangent.

The atlas mini is small but certainly large enough for most knives. I’ve forged a fairly large 16” overall length Bowie in an atlas mini. Bigger interior chamber just means it takes more propane to heat. Ideally you have a forge that is just big enough for what you’d use it for. Now if you’re going to forge big bends in your blade, then the mini would definitely be limiting in that regard. Really depends on what you’re going to be forging.

If you were going to cut a new hole, it would be easier (and probably better) to just make one yourself.
 
Killgore said:
It is pointing down and at an angle, yes. Which puts it pointing right down at your work area. The bladesmith ones usually come it at the top, at a tangent.

The atlas mini is small but certainly large enough for most knives. I’ve forged a fairly large 16” overall length Bowie in an atlas mini. Bigger interior chamber just means it takes more propane to heat. Ideally you have a forge that is just big enough for what you’d use it for. Now if you’re going to forge big bends in your blade, then the mini would definitely be limiting in that regard. Really depends on what you’re going to be forging.

If you were going to cut a new hole, it would be easier (and probably better) to just make one yourself.
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I think I would stay below 6" blade, maybe trying something larger but I like smaller knives so I doubt it. Would the mini be capable of making damascus, or is that something left to bigger forges?
 
I wouldn’t want to try Damascus in a mini. Not really enough space in there. Also, the lightweight insulative fire brick material the walls are made of will not stand up to flux, if you decide to use it. I have a dedicated forge for Damascus because I don’t want to fire that big thing up every time I want to go hammer out a little knife. I originally built that big forge for blades and Damascus but quickly realized it was just too much for forging blades and then went with something smaller for everyday forging.

It’s all personal opinion and what works for what you want to do with it. If it was me, I’d get something relatively small for forging blades and if you like it and think you want to make Damascus, maybe then build a big forge (that you could also use if you wanted to forge a big blade).

You also probably wouldn’t want to be forging Damascus by hand very much so by that point, you may also be thinking press/power hammer/rolling mill.

My everyday forge is a small vertical forge made of 8” tube. After inswool and coating, I get about a 5” heat across it and can forge any length blade 4-5” at a time.
 
Fluxless welding, or dry-welding, is my go-to method for making damascus. Choke the burner a little until you get an ever-so-slightly green flame, and you will have very little scale. This is a reducing atmosphere. The Atlas Forge gets more than hot enough to weld without flux. I've made lots of san-mai and wu-mai without flux in them.

I concur with Killgore that an Atlas forge is big enough for 99% of the knives you would make. Yes, it is essentially a two brick forge(2BF) on a stand, but it's probably the most advanced 2BF you will find. I've put hundreds of hours into research, testing, modifications, and consulting to produce the best forge possible.

If you want, the original HOWTO can be found in the virtual BBQ sticky. Sure, our process has improved considerably since it was written, but the result is still basically the same.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/virtual-bbq-2-brick-forge-wip.920120/ (cutting the bricks)
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/virtual-bbq-atlas-forge-wip.929644/ (building the shell)
 
ricardo Z said:
Is the hellfire suitable for knife making and can it forge weld or would it guzzle propane?
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I think it is, I can usually get about 20 hours of forging on a 40lb propane tank, and I can forge weld Damascus and San mai, make sure your pieces are flat and clean and if you weld all your seams you don’t have to worry about oxidation as much at least that’s been my experience for what it’s worth. The larger burner uses propane faster than the atlas but it does heat up your work quicker so in my opinion if you work quick it doesn’t take more propane.
 
I think im going to go with the hellfire, seems like a good size and is a reasonable price. Thanks for all the help.
 
Suitable? I would call them "adequate" for knifemaking. Not good, not bad. Think of motorcycles and trucks. Trucks can haul a lot of stuff, but not as quick and agile as a motorcycle. Motorcycles, however, have a tough time hauling more than a single bag of groceries, but use a lot less gas.
 
Atlas Knife Company said:
Suitable? I would call them "adequate" for knifemaking. Not good, not bad. Think of motorcycles and trucks. Trucks can haul a lot of stuff, but not as quick and agile as a motorcycle. Motorcycles, however, have a tough time hauling more than a single bag of groceries, but use a lot less gas.
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That's a great way to put it! I think too many people just getting into forging blades think they need the biggest, baddest forge and they really don't. 95% of the time the atlas mini is big enough for knives most people would make. The times that it's not is either making a really big odd shaped blade or trying to do something like make a big chunk of damascus starting with 30 layers, etc. I could see someone new wanting to play around and laminate a few pieces of steel together and you could certainly do that with the mini. That said, if you're going to get serious about damascus... you've got a lot more to think about than a bigger forge. By the time you spend the money for a tool like a hydraulic forging press, a dedicated damascus forge will sound like a drop in the bucket.

My personal opinion is that it is best to specialize your forges so that they are very good at doing just blade forging or just damascus, etc. That way you're not wasting propane to heat up an enormous chamber to forge a blade that you need a 2" chamber for. And then who knows when/if you'll ever use the extra space you're heating up for damascus, etc.

The hellfire is a blacksmith forge so it is designed for versatility which is what a blacksmith needs because he will be forging all sorts of odd shapes and sizes. A bladesmith is forging a very small thin piece of bar. Many blacksmiths also like to have a hot spot so they can focus heat on one particular portion that they want the steel to bend more in, etc. They also don't care as much about oxidation and decarb as bladesmiths do.

Will the hellfire heat up steel and work as a bladesmith forge? Yes.

My $0.02.
 
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