Bulletproof computer privacy

Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
14,031
Could someone please clue me in to how to make a computer and it's info
completely private? I have an ancient laptop that would seem to possibly
make a personal database. How would one make that laptop particularly
secure? Would it be better to convert that laptop to Linux?

I am rather on my own here and would appreciate some advice on the
matter.
 
For one thing, don't connect it to the internet or any other insecure network. I'm absolutely serious. If the information must be secret you definitely want to avoid this sort of intrusion.

Are you attempting to protect against a physical intrusion, like someone copying the file(s) or disk or just pulling up the information on the machine? This is what it sounds like so this is what I'm assuming.

Now does everything on the disk have to be secure? If so, your best bet is to get software that will encrypt the entire disk and just leave a boot loader. You may wish to look at PGP Whole Disk.

If you need to encrypt a particular file or files, there are programs that can create an encrypted container that acts like a disk. With modern operating systems like Windows, though, you have to be vigilant about wiping free space on the disk and wiping any plaintext and temporary files.

And with any method, the key is to use a really, really good passphrase or a smart card. The vast, vast majority of people use extremely poor ones that are trivial to crack. If you want more information about making good ones, ask or PM me.
 
Well Phatch, I should encrypt my entire hardrive? Wouldn't that lock me in
to the previous owners data?

And Prof Ryan, no I am not going to log onto the web with this relic.
However is the best way to proceed is to delete the hardrive including
the Stacker program and replace it with Linux? That way I can get 32 bit
encryption and make my address book very difficult to hack? It's not like
I have the formula for Coca Cola on the thing but my personal info is just
that personal.
My idea for this relic is to store passwords and pin numbers on the thing.
And as far as I am concerned that kind of info is NYDBBM. (No one ones
darn business but mine).
And if I encrypt the hardrive will that make even removing the hardrive and
installing it in another computer not feasible?

And btw, it is my understanding that the way info is recovered is to slide a
Norton disk DR. into the carriage and the disk takes the lead from there.
Pwords and deleted files are restored iand then there is some 'splainning
to do. If the harddrive is encoded how much of a defense is that?
 
Using Linux would be a good first step. Also choosing strong passwords, and keeping them safe is another big step. If nobody is able to log into the computer they won't be able to view the files. It is actually very easy to bypass the Windows password security if you know how. Of course that doesn't stop one form taking the hard drive out and putting it into another computer to view files. And then there is the risk of people connecting to the computer remotely.

It is really all a matter of how crazy you want to get about setting up a secure computer. I am sure that making a virtually impenetrable computer wouldn't be worth the time or effort unless you have some sort of multi billion dollar secret to hide on it.
 
ErikD said:
Using Linux would be a good first step. Also choosing strong passwords, and keeping them safe is another big step. If nobody is able to log into the computer they won't be able to view the files. It is actually very easy to bypass the Windows password security if you know how. Of course that doesn't stop one form taking the hard drive out and putting it into another computer to view files. And then there is the risk of people connecting to the computer remotely.

It is really all a matter of how crazy you want to get about setting up a secure computer. I am sure that making a virtually impenetrable computer wouldn't be worth the time or effort unless you have some sort of multi billion dollar secret to hide on it.

I am not a kiddie porn maven nor do I talk to drug dealers on a regular
basis. what about sodering closed the data ports? The thing of it is that I
don't have much to hide, but that doesn't mean that I want my personal
info to any Joe Smow who happens to understand win encryption.
And yes I know one can set up a Bios p word, that doesn't help me. Same
with a DOS password, very rare indeed but not quite what I want.
 
Let me specify what I am looking for.

What is the best and most secure program for under 30 bucks? And were
can I get a copy of that program? Granteed pgp is free what is in 2nd
place?
 
fixer27 said:
However is the best way to proceed is to delete the hardrive including
the Stacker program and replace it with Linux? That way I can get 32 bit
encryption and make my address book very difficult to hack? It's not like
I have the formula for Coca Cola on the thing but my personal info is just
that personal.

The strength of the encryption doesn't have much to do with the operating system. It's the program or hardware (smart card, cryptoprocessors) you use.

You'll probably want a lighter distribution of Linux if you wish to proceed this way. There are some technical reasons why Linux is harder to hack, but it's also harder to break into because it's more obscure. It often ships with encryption software like GNUPG.

fixer27 said:
My idea for this relic is to store passwords and pin numbers on the thing.
And as far as I am concerned that kind of info is NYDBBM. (No one ones
darn business but mine).

There are some good programs with encryption built in that will do this on Windows and Linux. Password Safe by Counterpane Systems (now by various people) is probably the most well-known and well-studied.

fixer27 said:
And if I encrypt the hardrive will that make even removing the hardrive and
installing it in another computer not feasible?

It could complicate things. If the entire disk is encrypted except a boot loader, the disk will have to be the default boot disk. If you install it in to a radically different machine you're probably going to have to reinstall the operating system which will replace the boot loader which can screw things up... you get the idea. You'd have to decrypt the disk and then re-encrypt it.

fixer27 said:
And btw, it is my understanding that the way info is recovered is to slide a
Norton disk DR. into the carriage and the disk takes the lead from there.
Pwords and deleted files are restored iand then there is some 'splainning
to do. If the harddrive is encoded how much of a defense is that?

If the entire disk is encrypted except for a boot loader, Norton Disk Doctor will be useless. If you have been vigilant about wiping free space and don't leave any plain text around, it will also be useless. If someone really, really wanted to recover this data by spending thousands of dollars and using electron microscopes and such, they probably could though. Extremely unlikely unless we're talking about very valuable corporate secrets or something.

fixer27 said:
Let me specify what I am looking for.

What is the best and most secure program for under 30 bucks? And were
can I get a copy of that program? Granteed pgp is free what is in 2nd
place?

For just passwords, try Password Safe. You'd need a 32 bit version of Windows or Linux with WINE to run it.

For creating a virtual container, a good free program would be TrueCrypt.

For a completely free version of PGP that can be used for commercial purposes, there is GNUPG. This is command line based but there are good interfaces available for it.

There are other free or cheap programs. But as a general rule with cryptography, if you can't view the source you should consider it insecure. All of these programs have source code available.
 
Why thank you Ryan8, I will have to wipe the hardrive on the thing just
to be sure but what you have posted is like gold. You may not need it at
the time, but when you really need it, there is nothing like it. ;)

And what I am trying to do is have a laptop that is :

A. Secure
B. Runs tvsa and the results are kept in all encryted files.
c. Makes coffee
D. Tells me who will win the Super Bowl.
 
I use PGP version 8. I would also use Truecrypt if I needed a truly "free" option. Both are solid choices.

Creating a encrypted container of a few megabytes will store all the passwords and account information you need. If a physical theft occurs, your data in the encrypted volume is going to be safe. I'm not going say the NSA can't crack it but, what do you have in the encrypted volume that would be worth the expense to go to such great efforts?

If PGP is good enough for corporate espionage, I think it will be good enough for home users. If you need more encryption, you are doing something that is not typical.

Keep in mind that your average hack isn't going to spend 10's of thousands to get a credit card number that has a $2k limit. If they are going to try to crack most home encryption, it most likely is not about the money (assuming non-commercial home use).

Physical security helps but, a laptop that can be carried off can be dremel'ed, desoldered, unscrewed, etc. later at the the thiefs convenience. You don't have to be the toughest target, just tough enough to make them look elsewhere ;) YMMV
 
fixer27 said:
Could someone please clue me in to how to make a computer and it's info
completely private? I have an ancient laptop that would seem to possibly
make a personal database. How would one make that laptop particularly
secure? Would it be better to convert that laptop to Linux?

I am rather on my own here and would appreciate some advice on the
matter.

Get a Mac, or unplug it from the net. I was raised on Macs, so I would go with a brand spanking new iBook.
 
OK, a bit of a warning. I'm an IT/IS tech, so building secure systems is my day job. This is guranateed to be massive overkill for any application, including mine. If you're serious about making a truly secure (and thus barely usable) machine, this is the way to go.

I have an incredibly crappy laptop that I picked up for literally the price of a new hard disk, and it is 85% done being transformed into as secure a machine as I can make it.

The first step is chosing an operating system. I use linux all day, so I chose Gentoo Linux. OpenBSD would be a great choice too, but for day-to-day use it's significantly slower. Windows is...significantly harder to get a given level of security out of.

The second step was installing and configuring gentoo. I had two options: I could go with uber-scary paranoid NSA Secure Linux patches to make the machine govt-level secure, or regular Gentoo. I chose a vanilla kernel because I was lazy, but when I get bored I'm sure I'll go NSA later. Its a significant pain to set up tho.

Third step was taking care of the swap partition. Linux uses a little chunk of the hard disk to fill in for memory when programs ask for too much. Windows calls this Virtual Memory. The problem is that the swap contains bits of what the memory contains, and it isn't wiped out on power down. This means that somewhere on your swap drive (and probably in your virtual memory file on windows) your password is probably sitting out in plaintext. There are two ways of fixing this: 1) don't have a swap partition. This is easily doable if you have plenty of memory, but its a bit of a pain if you intend to actually use the machine, or if its very old. 2) Gentoo's Unstable branch has all the scripts built in to transparently encrypt that swap partition. The steps are pretty easy actually.

Fourth step which isn't complete is to set up encryption on the rest of the drive. There are two or three ways to do this. Briefly, you can encrypt the whole dist except for a stub bootloader, as has been mentioned. You can encrypt the entire /home/ directory which has all your users files, or you can have each user's home its own encrypted directory. I haven't yet decided which approach to take. I'll probably do it user-by-user for one reason: I'm the only user on the machine, but having multiple encrypted volumes gives plausible deniability as well as presenting multiple targets to an attacker.

The encryption keys can either be very long passphrases (good) or actual keys stored on a token (USB Key, Better), or both (Best). I'll be using the two-factor auth on this machine.

Again, this is massively overkill, but it cost me no money and it is still a fun project for me. The primary advantage to this is that I don't have to encrypt and decrypt anything; the system does all that for me in the background. As soon as I power off, all the plaintext goes away.

There are more advanced systems that I'm anxiously waiting to become more stable like the humerously-named rubberhose which gives multiple simultaneous encryption levels for the ultimate in plausible deniability.

Anyway, I've ranted enough. I commend you on your paranoia :)

[Edit: Forgot. One of the most important things is to ensure that no, and I mean NO incoming connections are allowed. Encryption isn't very useful when an attacker owns your OS. Turn off SSHd, samba, xinetd, etc. iptables is easy enough to setup to disallow all incoming connections. Of course no computer is ever truly secure unless it's unplugged, turned off and sealed in concrete, and even then I wouldn't bet on it.]
 
A fellow paranoid I salute you Skorgu, if that's your real name. :D

Well, I guess I had better leave the IR port unsupported then Huh?

And Rebeltf, I don't have anything to hide that you will ever have to know
about. :cool:

I always thought that a great plan "B" for the most plausible denability could
be some sort of large electro magnet near the computer that if the "safety"
isn't thrown, would power up and wreak havoc on the poor laptop that would
have my sorry pin numbers for my Visa cards. (I always forget the things
and have to call and report my card as stolen to receive a new one) not
to mention the prize winning pumpkinchocladot cake recipe.
 
Shh, you've never met me, this conversation never happened :)

I admit to being skeptical of the Big-Red-Button-Attached-To-A-Degausser method of deniability. Either you've got to be there to hit the button, or you've got to be able to reset it all the time. Way too tricky to get right, and I'm not so sure that even a solid degaussing would put the data out of reach of the more..shall we say persistent entities.

I think short of taping the drive to your crotch along with a thermite pack, you've got to assume that the data will end up in the wrong hands at some point, or at least out of your direct control. Leaving aside the difficulties of obtaining asbestos underwear, you may as well just encrypt it really good and hope you haven't ticked off any prime-factoring idiot-savants. Or to be truly, monumentally paranoid, use a one-time-pad. Actually, this entire conversation is making me want to invest in some Reynolds' Wrap shares...
 
If you want to encrypt files, there are freewares (already listed here) that will allow you to do so. If you want private messaging, you have to communicate the secret key to a distant computer then use it to encrypt the transiting data. There are also freewares (and open source) that let you do that.
If you know a bit of programming, you can have fun building your own tools. Today state of the art uses 512bit primes for RSA modulus (1024bit) in order to securely communicate the secret key, and 128bit for the secret key itself. To go paranoid, use 1024 or 2048 bit primes for the key transfer (they can't be broken in the near future unless some wild math discoveries are made) and 256bit ASE secret key encryption (each extra bit doubles the effort to break the key ...). I use that for my own messaging and file transfer home-made little 'ware.
A search on google on "rsa" "ase" and "encryption" will keep you reading a while :D
 
skorgu said:
Shh, you've never met me, this conversation never happened :)

I admit to being skeptical of the Big-Red-Button-Attached-To-A-Degausser method of deniability. Either you've got to be there to hit the button, or you've got to be able to reset it all the time. Way too tricky to get right, and I'm not so sure that even a solid degaussing would put the data out of reach of the more..shall we say persistent entities.

I think short of taping the drive to your crotch along with a thermite pack, you've got to assume that the data will end up in the wrong hands at some point, or at least out of your direct control. Leaving aside the difficulties of obtaining asbestos underwear, you may as well just encrypt it really good and hope you haven't ticked off any prime-factoring idiot-savants. Or to be truly, monumentally paranoid, use a one-time-pad. Actually, this entire conversation is making me want to invest in some Reynolds' Wrap shares...

Thermite attached to my johnson? Hmmm I'll have to look into it. :eek:

If one was a truly WCP/TFHW(world class paranoid tin foil hat wearer) just
have your encrypted data actually be a book code. That way even if it the
hard drive was cracked whatever alphabet agency would then have to know
what book or books that the code would coincide with.
By God, no one is getting MY cake recipe. :grumpy: :D That also is one of
the problems with technology, anything that one uses that one doesn't
completely understand shouldn't be really trusted. For all someone knows the
folks who created linux have some sort of "backdoor" for them to access if
their version ever crashed. Also while pgp is encrypted, would it be possible
to infect it with something that could reveal the contents?
 
fixer27 said:
Could someone please clue me in to how to make a computer and it's info
completely private?


images
 
A plug and a socket? Is that code? Does that method come with instructions? :D



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