Bullwhip as a defensive weapon?

Asha'man

Asha'man

Joined
Jan 22, 2001
Messages
897
Hey all,
I was wondering if any of you have had any experience with quality bullwhips and if they'd make good defensive weapons. And I mean good bullwhips, not the crappy ones from a catalog.
smile.gif


Asha'man
 
Takes lots of skill, for one. Plus, if you use one defensively, look at what it's going to cost you in court...

"Your honor, members of the jury, my client was savagely attacked and whipped by the defendant! Leroy Buford Ignacius Jones is no slave, out in the fields! He is no medieval serf! Who was this man to whip him this way, blah blah blah blah blah"

In the perception battle, you'd be smoked. Better to use a gun or a baseball bat... more effective too, and natural.

Just my humble opinion.

Kevin

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Contrary to what the Indiana Jones movies make you believe, a bullwhip is not an ideal defensive weapon. When I was a kid (I’m not into whips anymore, ask my wife
wink.gif
, I had a nice one and got to the point where I was able to crack it properly. (For the insider, that crack is actually a sonic boom coming from the tip of the whip when it breaks the sound barrier.) The problem is that a whip has a certain fixed range in which it is effective. If your object is too far or too close, you can’t hit it anymore. That might be the reason that people subject to that kind of treatment are usually tied up. But that’s a different story…
 
I see. So all it'd really be good for would be tricks. Or livestock work, but that's not what I want (or need) it for. I saw a few videos on the web at www.delongis.com. It's the website of Anthony DeLongis, a weapons guy for the movies, and he sells a few instructional videos on how to use a bullwhip. One more thing: can you really grab stuff out of peoples' hands with a whip? Like if they were running towards you with a rifle or a pitchfork or something? I've read that it can be done, but have never seen it? Any input?

Asha'man
 
Mabye if you were a kung-fu double whip master, you could snatch something from someones hand, other that that.....

Nahh.

But, thinking of whips makes me think of shamboks, which are a scourge of sorts, with African roots, but same situation as Spark mentioned.

Solution- Improvise......

Look at things that people carry, not things you necessarily already carry, but that others carry, and ask yourself what sort of weapon value it has, then decide you if you need to start carrying that very common(innocent) and useful item. In preparation for this excercise.... Read every book imaginable on weapons and martial craft, over and over again, then start to ask yourself how those items could be made out of everyday items....

------------------
Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye mdpoff@hotmail.com

My website, guided links, talonite/cobalt alloy info, etc....
http://www.geocities.com/mdpoff

>>--->Bill Siegle Custom Knives<---<<
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

"To wait for luck is the same as waiting for death." -Japanese Proverb

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." Lao Tzu

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
I've been playing with whips for years...

When you think of whips as defensive weapons, one is usually speaking of shorter whips in the 4-6 foot range (that's the handle + thong, then you add 2-3 feet for the fall and another 6 inches for the cracker). A short whip can be kept in the air and danced around the attacker. A long whip has a chamber-release cycle that makes it unsuitable for most defensive work.

Even a short whip is typically a "weapon of opportunity" meaning a secondary weapon that is used to distract an opponent giving the defender time to escape or close with a primary weapon (similar to throwing something) - "latigo e daga" (whip and dagger) techniques are a Philippino tradition. It is not a good "only weapon" since a determined attacker can penetrate even a good whip defense.

Yes a whip expert can grab something out of someone's hand, but as others have mentioned, the range has to be just right.

There is a two part article on whip's in martial arts linked near the top of this page at http://www.sonic.net/~quine/whip.refs.html Look for the link pointing to the Comtech articles on whips. This article was transcribed with permission of comtech.
 
Snatching things out of people hands can be done if A: the whip is long enough to wind around the object several times, B: the object is in a perpendicular position to you, C: the subject holding that object must be willing to give it up. In short, for show purposes it will work, for self defense it won't.
 
The 6th Panther Video Dog Brothers tape shows the 28" rattan stick when fighting against other weapons, including 6' & 10' (or 12') bullwhips. The 6' was faster & better for holding an opponent at bay, but once the stick man got the timing down & got inside the whip, it was all over very quickly.

Based on this, I think the whip is a low-percentage tool with too steep a learning curve.

Source for this vid: http://www.panthervideo.com/cart_test/htdocs/index.php3?SCREEN=item&sid=a6X3h8JJaPGE7Qyb&item=96
 
I like my 6 foot bullwhip from Colorado Saddlery, and my 8 foot rawhide bull whip.

Do I think it is a good defensive weapon: I would not even know what to say, maby if you wanted enough room between you and the badguy so that you can either entangle him, or keep him back before you draw a knife/axe/stunned cat.

at www.combattech.com you can get a bullwhip video which is awsome if you really like flexible weapons like the bandanna (if you have that video set as well)
 
Well, here's where I got the idea that you could disarm people in real life. There was a guy named Ralph Moody who grew up right here in Littleton, CO (sort of a local hero). He wrote a series of books detailing his life from about age 7 to 23. In the second to last book, "The Dry Divide" he is working as a harvest hand (about 1920) for this guy who is abusive to people and animals both. Anyway, he is a wizard with a blacksnake whip, and one day he yells at Ralph one time too many. Ralph takes his pitchfork and runs towards the guy with it, but the guy uses the whip to rip the pitchfork right out of Ralph's hands. I don't think Ralph was exactly willing to be disarmed like this. Have any of you read this book, or know anything about occurrences like this in other nonfiction books?

Asha'man
 
There are several FMA styles that incorperate the bullwhip. Ask around in the Tactics and Training\ Filipino Martial Arts folder. Check out www.sayoc.com. The Sayocs are very good with whips. They tend to use a long whip, typically 6-8 ft, but once you get the basics down you can adapt it to smaller length whips.

Tommy "The Whip" Meadows, who is the guy working the whip on the Dog Brothers tape is by all accounts incredible. His system is called Latigo y Daga (Whip and Dagger). He is writing a book and doing a video on the subject. I have trained with 2 of his students and they are both excelent. Tommy is also in Anthony DeLongis' videos. Anthony has a very flashy theatrical style and uses a long whip. Tommy uses a 4' whip and is very combative with his approach.

just my 2 cents

J-MAN
 
I use a 6ft (8 plait Roo-Hide) "pocket snake" style whip made by Peter Jack in NZ. It is lead shot loaded (down the core) for greater ‘kinetic dump’. Let me tell ya it is one heck of a weapon! I prune trees with it! Any branch within ½ inch or less diameter I can cut clean with 1 shot. It will fold up into the pocket of my vest. In a combative situation it would lay the flesh wide open and break small to medium bones. We live out in the sticks and have lots of wild dogs in the area that have gone feral (good fodder for the .22!). Not that I don’t love dogs (I have 2) but I have used it in defense of my pets (and self!) quite successfully! You MUST train with a whip both for control and accuracy however, you needn’t be a ‘ninja master’ to really put the hurt on someone in a fight! It is quite a formidable weapon when used properly in trained hands! I would rather have a good gun but in a defensive situation I feel it would definitely be equal to a large knife… As for court defensible, depends on where ya live and how ya use it, I suppose…
 
Hi,

I'm not shure if you could call the "thing" I made a whip but in capable hands it's a very mean tool.
I went to the local butcher and asked him for a bulls penis. Perhaps you don't know it but this consists of 2 very thick long sinews.
If you let such a bulls penis drie while hanging 10 pounds from the "head" you get a dried up to 3.5 feet long sinew that is so incredible strong that you won't believe it.
When you hit a tree with full force this "whip" will go around the tree and chances are you're stripping bark of the tree.

In Holland , police had these contraptions about 30 years ago for riot control but they were banned because they inflict terrible damage when one hits a person with it with some force.
I guess its a little bit like the South African whip that Cold Steel sells a "plastic" version of.

Best Scouting wishes from Holland,

Bagheera


------------------
 
I have an 8ft. David Morgan bullwhip, just like the one in the INdiana Jones movies (David Morgan also made the ones used in Batman Returns and The Mask of Zorro). It is a fine piece of work, but you need alot of space to use it. Living in an apartment, I don't really have the space to play with it. Every so often I apply some Pecard's Leather Dressing and await the day I have a yard to play in.

------------------
Clay Fleischer
clay_fleischer@yahoo.com
AKTI Member A000847
 
Clay,
I've always wanted one of those David Morgan whips. They are the nicest I've seen. What leather is yours made out of?

Bagheera,
That sounds like a good idea, although I'm not sure that I could keep a straight face long enough to ask a butcher.
biggrin.gif
Do they charge for those things by the foot?
wink.gif


Paul
 
Bagheera, you da man! I forgot all about those, handled one many years ago. My grandfather had one. These babies are very, very mean, I'll tell you that. It's not a bullwhip, but more of a flexible stick. Rigid but unbreakable. If you don't know what it is, you would never guess. I would take one of those anytime over a bullwhip for self defense. Just make sure they stay dry
wink.gif
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ralf:
Bagheera, you da man! I forgot all about those, handled one many years ago. My grandfather had one. </font>
Click to expand...

Ralf, I know what you are saying here, but that made me LMAO! Your grandfather must have been a proud man!
wink.gif


Paul
 
Hi Paul,

Living in a 2000 souls small town with a local butcher that does his own slaughtering has its advantages.

These babies are absolutely free of charge
smile.gif


I've seen nice handiwork using 2 of them, because each one consists of two strong sinews you can split them quiet easily lengthwise and then use 3 sinews braiding (? don't know if that's the word) them together and the fourth sinew to wrap around the 2 ends to make for a nice grip.
It's hard to do but the end result is a really mean "stick" that very easily can break bones when you hit somebody with it (that was the reason they were banned for police use in Holland + who would want a d.ck holding a d.ck
wink.gif
)

By the way, even when streched and dried you can easily see what it was, well I as a Biologist can anyhow also using these dried bull "whips" gives an completely new meaning to the English expression "giving head"
wink.gif
biggrin.gif


If anybody has a 5-6 foot Snakewhip (the real Mccoy) laying around unused and is willing to part from it for substancially less then the $200-250 that I see them advertised for drop me an email.

Best scouting wishes from Holland,

Bagheera

------------------


[This message has been edited by Bagheera (edited 05-10-2001).]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top