- Joined
- Oct 26, 2003
- Messages
- 53
Had some fun at the kitchen sink and some vinegar this morning. Got a nice temperline with nie (martensite), very cool. Thanks for the tips Dean.
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Bura's got Hamon
- Thread starter alfred tan
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,397
I see your blade has something I've only noticed recently.
The triangular shadow of zones in the middle of the blade.
These show it was held there by tongs/pliers/whatever.
I have a bilton that shows that one side of the spine rested
on something while the blade was being hardened.
And a ganga ram that was held by something
about 3" square on both side of the blade.
Hope these extra hardened areas
don't create a weakness in the blades.
For aesthetic reasons,
I hope this is not going to become common.
I like the zones to show,
and want to do more with them for display.
The triangular shadow of zones in the middle of the blade.
These show it was held there by tongs/pliers/whatever.
I have a bilton that shows that one side of the spine rested
on something while the blade was being hardened.
And a ganga ram that was held by something
about 3" square on both side of the blade.
Hope these extra hardened areas
don't create a weakness in the blades.
For aesthetic reasons,
I hope this is not going to become common.
I like the zones to show,
and want to do more with them for display.
Nasty
Chief Cook & Bottle Wash
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2003
- Messages
- 5,924
DDean,
I've been reading about bringing out the hamon and read your "vinegar with Dawn™" method with interest. I know I will end up doing my (yeah, I know, it's brand new) Bura AK just to see the lines. You said in one of the postings that you would be posting some pics...haven't seen them, have you done so yet or do you have any handy for us to see?
As for the odd markings showing up, I would think that tongs or whatever made the marks would act as heat sinks...perhaps even to the extent of causing zone annealing. Could possibly cause failures, but I would think that a craft such as this would have noted over the last 400 years if there were problems in the process.
Alfred Tan,
Looks great! Can you spell out the steps as you performed them?
Thanks!
Nasty
I've been reading about bringing out the hamon and read your "vinegar with Dawn™" method with interest. I know I will end up doing my (yeah, I know, it's brand new) Bura AK just to see the lines. You said in one of the postings that you would be posting some pics...haven't seen them, have you done so yet or do you have any handy for us to see?
As for the odd markings showing up, I would think that tongs or whatever made the marks would act as heat sinks...perhaps even to the extent of causing zone annealing. Could possibly cause failures, but I would think that a craft such as this would have noted over the last 400 years if there were problems in the process.
Alfred Tan,
Looks great! Can you spell out the steps as you performed them?
Thanks!
Nasty
- Joined
- Mar 5, 1999
- Messages
- 34,096
Nice stuff and thanks.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2003
- Messages
- 53
Here is what i did...sort of a modified version of another post i read somewhere.
You need:
600 grit paper
0000 steel wool
white vinegar
baking soda
water
dish soap
paper towels
1-600 grit sand paper to get rid of the mirror polish then rub with 0000 steel wool to even the finish
2-Clean with soap and Acetone or Windex to get rid of any oil and residue.
3-Bring to boil in Microwave 75% white vinegar, 25% water and a few drops of dish soap
4-In another container, mix some baking soda with water to a paste and put a wad of 0000 steel wool in there.
5-Heat the blade of the kukri over range, do not get it too hot.
6-Paper towel the hot vinegar mix onto the blade till it changes color
7-Rinse the blade in water and wash with dish soap
8-Rub it with the steel wool and baking soda paste
Repeat 5 to 8 till you get the effect you want. Took me about 10 applications. When you are happy, apply some oil. I used clove oil but i am sure just about any light oil will work.
alf
You need:
600 grit paper
0000 steel wool
white vinegar
baking soda
water
dish soap
paper towels
1-600 grit sand paper to get rid of the mirror polish then rub with 0000 steel wool to even the finish
2-Clean with soap and Acetone or Windex to get rid of any oil and residue.
3-Bring to boil in Microwave 75% white vinegar, 25% water and a few drops of dish soap
4-In another container, mix some baking soda with water to a paste and put a wad of 0000 steel wool in there.
5-Heat the blade of the kukri over range, do not get it too hot.
6-Paper towel the hot vinegar mix onto the blade till it changes color
7-Rinse the blade in water and wash with dish soap
8-Rub it with the steel wool and baking soda paste
Repeat 5 to 8 till you get the effect you want. Took me about 10 applications. When you are happy, apply some oil. I used clove oil but i am sure just about any light oil will work.
alf
- Joined
- May 18, 1999
- Messages
- 15,395
Nasty first of all welcome to the Psycho Ward or Cantina, whichever you prefer, they both fit.
I wouldn't hold the blade over an open flame. Too much danger of overheating it if you're not very careful.
Most hot water tanks have water plenty warm enough to heat up the blade so that it will etch and with no danger.
Just hold the blade under the hot water until it's too hot to hold onto then proceed.
You can also use the maroon Scotch-Brite pads instead of the steel wool to bring up an even satin finish.
I prefer the Scotch-Brite because it doesn't "shed" like steel wool does, nor does it rust.
Dayumed nice job Alfred!!!!
Interestingly I brought out the hardening line on one of my khuks simply by putting on a satin finish with a Scotch-Brite pad.
I don't know if it was the hardness of the blade or the difference between the soft and hard places.
It's the only one that has done that for me like that though.
Now I can't recall which khuk it was, but it being unusual I posted about it at the time.
Since I've gotten all the villagers I have I have to shamefully admit that I have been neglecting all my others.
Nasty
Chief Cook & Bottle Wash
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2003
- Messages
- 5,924
Yvsa,
Thanks...I figured simply submerging it in boiling water or steaming it for a bit would do the trick. I plan on using the Khuk, so this is my way of being lazy. I figure that if I can get a way to keep a certain finish on it (satin, satin with the line, whatever) it'd be easier than trying to keep it like a mirror.
A question though...I know a Scotch pad will knock the edge off. When you put your satin on, did you go across the blade, or lengthwise?
Nasty
ps: I've read quite a few of your posts...enjoyable and informative reading!
Thanks...I figured simply submerging it in boiling water or steaming it for a bit would do the trick. I plan on using the Khuk, so this is my way of being lazy. I figure that if I can get a way to keep a certain finish on it (satin, satin with the line, whatever) it'd be easier than trying to keep it like a mirror.
A question though...I know a Scotch pad will knock the edge off. When you put your satin on, did you go across the blade, or lengthwise?
Nasty
ps: I've read quite a few of your posts...enjoyable and informative reading!
- Joined
- May 18, 1999
- Messages
- 15,395
Nasty I went lengthwise and still knocked the edge off. You have to be careful.
I found that by rubbing towards the edge that it would actually enhance the sharpness if done carefully, very carefully.
Thanks. I was a newbie here once myself and try to remember that.
- Joined
- Mar 8, 1999
- Messages
- 8,911
Alfred:
This is part of my sense of humor, but I really do do this. Honest to God or Whomever may be!!!
I get my clove oil at the pharmacy, but in case you haven't seen it in some of my older postings, mix 1/2 to one oz. clove oul with 8 to 12 ozs. of Kama Sutra Pleasure Garden massage oil. Eventually needs to be renewed but it softens scabbard leather well, and if you treat the wood inside the scabbard maintains the scent for a very long time.
Really truly - sent Yvsa one I'd treated. Ask him about the odd looks he got when folks walked by where it was kept.
This is part of my sense of humor, but I really do do this. Honest to God or Whomever may be!!!
I get my clove oil at the pharmacy, but in case you haven't seen it in some of my older postings, mix 1/2 to one oz. clove oul with 8 to 12 ozs. of Kama Sutra Pleasure Garden massage oil. Eventually needs to be renewed but it softens scabbard leather well, and if you treat the wood inside the scabbard maintains the scent for a very long time.
Really truly - sent Yvsa one I'd treated. Ask him about the odd looks he got when folks walked by where it was kept.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2003
- Messages
- 53
Sun
That is a 15 inch Bura AK
Rusty
A pretty smelling kuk that is about to do soms kama sutra, twisted
Dean, Yvsa, Nasty,
Yes, best not to heat over open flame, i kept the kuk about 6 inches from flame moved it around alot and stopped when all the water was dried off. It was warm to the touch, not hot.
alf
That is a 15 inch Bura AK
Rusty
A pretty smelling kuk that is about to do soms kama sutra, twisted
Dean, Yvsa, Nasty,
Yes, best not to heat over open flame, i kept the kuk about 6 inches from flame moved it around alot and stopped when all the water was dried off. It was warm to the touch, not hot.
alf
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2002
- Messages
- 3,229
Good one Alf!
I might have to try this on a rusty Hanshee & see what it brings up!
Cheers,
Spiral
I might have to try this on a rusty Hanshee & see what it brings up!
Cheers,
Spiral
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,397
Not great ones,
most recent was in my post here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=284487
Flat lighting to show hamon doesn't show shine.
I need to work on this.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2003
- Messages
- 50
I found this thread encouraging. Of the three Kuhkri I have recieved N-O-N-E Showed anywhere near the depth of hamon as that knife.
In fact the big Duichira has None in the sweet spot.....Zip!! Nadda. Just a little toward the point and back from the sweet spot.
The WW11 models have so thin a hamon as to be almost worthless.
The reason I etched to find out about the transitional zone? The Duichirra bent over to a deth of a 1/4" in three place in the sweet spot while cutting brush. I was speechless!! I threw it in the woods-but thought better about it the next day and went back to find it. One of the other WW11's rolled its edge and chipped. This is the first time I ever saw that. Usually it does one or the other Rolls for being to soft or chips for being to hard.
I never cut anything with the other one -whats the point.
Perhaps my experiences were just some substandard pieces that got by after all. If the picture above is any indication of a standard than there are some that are done better than the ones I got.
I am going to etch out the ones I have (I use a ferric chloride as it gives a better coloring than vinegar) take pictures, then I will re-heatreat them using clays to get a proper-and more metallurically sound-hamon on both the edge and back. Clays offer the ability to "soak" at temperature thus giving a proper heat treat. The back I will draw to a spring temper. I will then clean up the messy lines and reduce the uneeded weight of the heavy sectional profile.
I will post the results this winter.
I Make My own Kuhkris as well as Japanese swords and have been doing so for over two decades. I bought the Kukris out of interest in research. I also bought 8 others from different eras and vendors.
I have done research with Nihonto, kris, and other weapons indigenous to various cultures as well.
And for what its worth NO!! I no longer sell commercially for those who are thinking ill-thoughts.
I posted this end-user information earlier and was told I was a "troll" for -I guess- having the audacity to respond with negative user feedback. How very! I actually LIKE to hear from people who bought my swords or knives or use buildings I designed.
Etching
Using ferric chloride (purchased at any radio shack) cut to 50% from the bottle will work fine. For the best look- sand the blade up to a 600 grit before, etch and wash with a neutrilizer. Then sand again with the 600 hundred grit. The soft areas will appear dark and more clear- the hard zone will appear white and shaded. You can enhance this by sanding the soft areas more than the hard as well. This "finish" is easy to touch up after rough use. Acetone will remove any tree sap and a quick sanding will bring out the hamon
I must add that the reason I purchased anything was Uncle Bill. He is top notch, his service is top notch and and his love for the people I found compelling. I never wanted a replacement as it would cost money the cannot spare. I would rather consider it money well spent "for the cause."
In fact were I able to know I would get a better blade I would order two 18" Dui chirra today. And gladly pay an increased fee for the quality control.
Dan "happy that they make better knives than what I got" Harden
In fact the big Duichira has None in the sweet spot.....Zip!! Nadda. Just a little toward the point and back from the sweet spot.
The WW11 models have so thin a hamon as to be almost worthless.
The reason I etched to find out about the transitional zone? The Duichirra bent over to a deth of a 1/4" in three place in the sweet spot while cutting brush. I was speechless!! I threw it in the woods-but thought better about it the next day and went back to find it. One of the other WW11's rolled its edge and chipped. This is the first time I ever saw that. Usually it does one or the other Rolls for being to soft or chips for being to hard.
I never cut anything with the other one -whats the point.
Perhaps my experiences were just some substandard pieces that got by after all. If the picture above is any indication of a standard than there are some that are done better than the ones I got.
I am going to etch out the ones I have (I use a ferric chloride as it gives a better coloring than vinegar) take pictures, then I will re-heatreat them using clays to get a proper-and more metallurically sound-hamon on both the edge and back. Clays offer the ability to "soak" at temperature thus giving a proper heat treat. The back I will draw to a spring temper. I will then clean up the messy lines and reduce the uneeded weight of the heavy sectional profile.
I will post the results this winter.
I Make My own Kuhkris as well as Japanese swords and have been doing so for over two decades. I bought the Kukris out of interest in research. I also bought 8 others from different eras and vendors.
I have done research with Nihonto, kris, and other weapons indigenous to various cultures as well.
And for what its worth NO!! I no longer sell commercially for those who are thinking ill-thoughts.
I posted this end-user information earlier and was told I was a "troll" for -I guess- having the audacity to respond with negative user feedback. How very! I actually LIKE to hear from people who bought my swords or knives or use buildings I designed.
Etching
Using ferric chloride (purchased at any radio shack) cut to 50% from the bottle will work fine. For the best look- sand the blade up to a 600 grit before, etch and wash with a neutrilizer. Then sand again with the 600 hundred grit. The soft areas will appear dark and more clear- the hard zone will appear white and shaded. You can enhance this by sanding the soft areas more than the hard as well. This "finish" is easy to touch up after rough use. Acetone will remove any tree sap and a quick sanding will bring out the hamon
I must add that the reason I purchased anything was Uncle Bill. He is top notch, his service is top notch and and his love for the people I found compelling. I never wanted a replacement as it would cost money the cannot spare. I would rather consider it money well spent "for the cause."
In fact were I able to know I would get a better blade I would order two 18" Dui chirra today. And gladly pay an increased fee for the quality control.
Dan "happy that they make better knives than what I got" Harden