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Burr King Grinder

Discussion in 'Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers' started by Bo T, May 3, 2012.

  1. Bo T

    Bo T

    Feb 12, 2011
    There is a Burr king grinder for sale around here (Burr King Model 960-200/272, 2x72). It comes with @ 400 belts and some attachments and a pedestal. It is about 16 years old with a 180 V DC motor and a Leeson Speedmaster controller. I can get Wayne Coe's grinder with his infinitly adjustable rest (no belts) or a Pheer grinder for substantially less. I am getting an understanding of the newer VFD controllers but know next to nothing about the DC motor controllers.

    Also, does the adhesive dry out on unused 16 YO belts? It seems the seller believes they are worth $5 each.
     
  2. ERIK KNIVES

    ERIK KNIVES

    883
    Aug 17, 2010
    I would not buy 16 year old belts. That's all I got here.
     
  3. Brian Ayres

    Brian Ayres

    Feb 4, 2011
    I got an old Wilton Square wheel off of Craigslist a few months ago and traded it to another knifemaker buddy of mine. It came with 30+ belts. They were 5-10? Years old and each belt lasted varying amounts of time from 5 minutes, to thirty? before they all gave out and broke in half. Greg said he got to know the little sound it made before snapping and got good at dodging the belts.... Lol. That being said, the belts at that age should be free....

    I don't know enough about DC motors overall to voice an opinion other than the DC motors on some of the equipment I run are 30 years old and still going strong!
     
  4. NickWheeler

    NickWheeler

    Dec 3, 1999
    I have a Burr King 960 with the variable speed Leeson and Speedmaster controller... Bought it the week I graduated from high school in 1996, and it's still going strong. Just ground on it today. The only thing I've had to do was replace a fuse in the control box- twice. :)

    A Burr King is definitely not as easy to change set-ups on as a three wheeled grinder (that's ultimately why I bought other grinders) but it is incredibly smooth with excellent tracking. :) :thumbup:

    Abrasives have a shelf life. Unless those belts are coated in baby unicorn horn velvet... there's no way I'd pay $5 for belts that old. If they're truly that old, they're not worth much of anything.
     
  5. Brett Mathews

    Brett Mathews

    405
    Aug 3, 2008
    That grinder is way over priced and the belt are worth nothing in my opinion dc motors are good set up to get v.s. but they are expensive and you do have to replace brushes in a dc motor from time to time but not really a big deal. Now a days I think all the Grinder mfg. have gone to 3phase motor with vfds to get the v.s.a nd that should say something but would not let the dc motor detor me form buying that burr king if the price was better . I think a more realistic price would be $1800.00.
     
  6. 12345678910

    12345678910

    Jul 13, 2009
    I agree too old to be paid for.

    Offer to let him keep the belts and sell them separately if he reduces the grinder price by that much.
     
  7. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    The grinder is a good machine, and the DC sped control is fine. I have a DC grinder, and besides popping the internal fuses from time to time, they run great.

    That said, a 16 year old unit has a lot of use on it and should be quite discounted. The belts are worth nothing. If they were included free, or for something like $200-400, fine, but not for $2000 ( 400X$5). If he is firm on the belt price, just buy the grinder. Unless they are top of the line Zirc belts or Cubitrons, he is asking new price. BTW, Did the seller say the belts are as old as the grinder ? ...they could have been purchased last week.

    If the unit runs quiet, is clean and shows no serious wear or other issues, offer him $1500, and walk away if he wants more than $2000 including the belts.
     
  8. Bo T

    Bo T

    Feb 12, 2011
    I've been following CL for a month now and the ad has been modified several times. I don't know if the belts are 16 YO but I am fairly certain there hasn't been much response and I like to get as much info as possible before taking the time (mine and the sellers) to look at something. Thanks to everyone for the information, it really helps. I think I'll give the seller a call this weekend and get more detailed info.
     
  9. 12345678910

    12345678910

    Jul 13, 2009
    Is this the ad?

    Burr King Model 960-200/272 Two Wheel variable speed Belt Grinder
    with 385+ belts (2x72)
    • Leeson Speedmaster motor control (with direct current permanent magnet motor) (model C4D28FK11C)
    • 1.5 hp vari-speed single phase, 220V
    • USA made
    • Model C4D21, 8"/10" contact wheels
    • RPM 2500, volts 180, amps 75, torque 37.8 [F.F. 1.38, Ser. Fac. 1.0, type DF, max amp 40)
    • Small wheel attachment, pedestal stand, workrest support, operating procedures
    • Home shop use only, purchased from Koval Knives
    • 385+ belts - 2" x 72" (some slightly used)
    • 115 lbs.
    Burr King 2012 list price $3,268 plus 385+ belts @ $5 each
    $2,500 obo

    [​IMG][​IMG]


    1
    How do you know the belts are 16 years old ?
    I don't get that from the ad

    2
    No one buys 385 x $2,500 of belts belts for "Home shop use only"
    either he was in business, or he bought it from an industrial liquidation and is trying to resale.
    You should be able to tell by the look and layout of his shop.

    I would want to pay less, but it is better than paying new price.
    If the belts are new, then it's a very good deal.

    check to see the wheels are not chipped or excessively worn.
    Even if the machine has huge hours on it, bearing are pretty cheap.

    I'd buy it, I'd just use those things to try and knock the price down.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
  10. NickWheeler

    NickWheeler

    Dec 3, 1999
    I couldn't even find that ad! Zero desire to swoop in on the OP's purchase, was just curious.

    I'm with Sam on this. Most of the belts I see in that photo haven't even been on the market for 16 years.

    I buy belts in big numbers so I get quantity discounts, and I've still never had 385 belts at once... that's a hell of a lot of belts for "home use only." I think maybe "1 person owner" would be more realistic... might sound like semantics, but the difference would be hundreds or even thousands of hours of use time for the tool.
     
  11. Bo T

    Bo T

    Feb 12, 2011
    It appears to be the same one shown above. It is on CL Spokane under 'grinder', Mar. 28th. None of the belts look new to me, so 'some slightly used' could mean the rest are heavily used. I don't make knives for a living so even if the belts were new, I probably wouldn't have used most of them 16 years from now. Again the grinder is being measured against the Pheer and Wayne Coe's machines.
     
  12. Charles Vestal

    Charles Vestal KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    585
    Sep 22, 2004

    The platen is on the grinder, it is part of the knifemakers attachment. You can see it in the second picture.



    The idler/tracking wheel on the grinder is the one you use for the 10" contact wheel, be sure you get the idler/tracking wheel for the 8" contact wheel as well, it should be aluminum.

    Take care

    Charles
     
  13. 12345678910

    12345678910

    Jul 13, 2009
    Thanks, I did see that later..
     
  14. Bo T

    Bo T

    Feb 12, 2011
    Just an update. I've exchanged e-mails with Jean Hodges the widow of the late Warren Hodges. I Googled his work and he turned out some very fine pieces.

    I made Jean an offer based on the cost of personally building a grinder similar to Wayne Coe's. We did not come to an agreement but I believe Jean has reposted the grinder on CL with a lower price.

    I've ordered Wayne Coe's DVD on building a grinder and will study that for a few hours. I've heard that flux core welding with the new auto darkening helmets is a lot easier than the old arc welding???
     
  15. Salem Straub

    Salem Straub KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 20, 2008
    Bo T, where are you at in WA? Out east here somewhere? Did you see those two Baders for sale on CL over on the coast?
     
  16. Bo T

    Bo T

    Feb 12, 2011
    Salem, I am just west of Spokane. If those two grinders were on CL several weeks ago, I looked at the ad. But it is a long drive for me.
    And thanks for the information about grinders on your website. It is where I started looking at the different types of 2x72s.
     
  17. Ed Fowler

    Ed Fowler

    Jul 21, 2001
    Warren was a good guy, sorry to hear of his passing. I doubt the grinder was abused in any way.
     

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