Bush Explains Medicare Drug Bill

I believe in democracy. More specifically, I believe in the two (or three) party system. Ultimately, future directions are determined not by what you and I believe as individuals, but by democratic elections that include, in some small measure at least, the opinion of all who are willing to take the trouble to vote. That is our safety valve. Excessive power corrupts, and, as the old cliche goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely. But absolute power cannot readily be garnered in America because we always have an alternate party waiting in the wings, ready to take advantage of the next series of elections, which are never more that two years away. Party politics is not a pretty sight, but ultimately everybody who cares about the future votes and the outcome is accepted (albeit with more than a little grumbling at times) until the next election. When I sense that a party in power is amassing perhaps too much power, or is seeking to completely discredit the alternate party in advance of elections, I lean against the wind. To me what may be in jeopardy is the two party system itself, and that is the essential mortar of our country.
 
Maybe, maybe not>>>>> Hollow

Yep. For some reason this reminds me of the old Mad Magazine comic strip:
Spy VS Spy.


>>>>>>>

Not too many people know that when the last dust up occurred in the forum regarding whether or not politics be allowed in discussion, Hollow actually missed talking to me.




munk
 
When I sense that a party in power is amassing perhaps too much power>>> Bwray

I do this too. Whover and Whichever party is dominant always gets my resistance. It's human nature to consolidate power, and it is the obligation of every generation of Americans to resist the idea that our nation is defined not by us, but by the Bureacracies we've entrusted our nation to.

"......or is seeking to completely discredit the alternate party in advance of elections, I lean against the wind. " Bwray ( the end of his sentence)

Well, you don't have to worry the Republicans can discredit the Democrats before the election; after all, they have the NY Times and practically every other news outlet in the media biased in their favor.



munk
 
Munk, aren't you forgetting about Fox, Clear Channel, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and the Michael Powell lead relaxation of anti-monopoly restrictions on the media. I worry.
 
Good point Bill. The media is still solidly leaning left even with those examples though. I do worry about Republican power though. They are in bed with religion, and big business too. Somehow.

Plus, is anybody here not buying the "don't know how Abramoff got here" story?
 
Bwray;

monopoly on media? Air America is failing in every venue it aired. They have to pay the stations to carry it- not the stations paying them. What does that tell you? That the liberal message is being smothered? Of course not. Fox News hardly makes up the status quo of CBS, NBC, ABC, NY Times....


Be happy. There are dissenters from about every position you can think of in this forum. I'm a libertarian.

Our Cantina is an open place of friendship and ideas.

munk
 
You know munk, as ironic as it may sound, I believe I am affected by watching too much Fox. I actually have a sort of negative fascination with Hannity's unrelenting assault on democrats of past administrations, potential democratic candidates for future office, and anyone who dares criticize Bush or his cohorts about anything. So I watch and worry about who's going to be able to counter all this bullshit. (Incidently, the best stand up to Hannity guest I've ever seen is Wesley Clark, and he would be my choice for 2008.) I believe in listening to all points of view, but probably listen to Hannity too much.

When I stop and think about it, Hannity is probably doing his cause more harm than good (or, at least, just as much harm). I can guarantee you that he is mobilizing opposition, and I don't think his approach wins new support for his chosen party. It serves primarily to entertain people whose minds are already made up. And it gets his ratings up.

Libertarian huh. That's cool. I don't vote straight party lines either and have gone 3rd party on occasion.
 
munk said:
Bwray;
monopoly on media? Air America is failing in every venue it aired. They have to pay the stations to carry it- not the stations paying them. What does that tell you? That the liberal message is being smothered? Of course not. Fox News hardly makes up the status quo of CBS, NBC, ABC, NY Times....
munk

I'm pretty liberal but I don't like liberal or conservative talk radio or tv. If I hear the news I want the news. If I want discussion I want to hear both sides.
 
Bwray-

I don't watch Hannity very much. I lost interest in that sort of thing- from anyone. Barbara Olsen was a person who could speak well without being skewed, but she is gone, God rest her soul. I don't like Ann Coulter even though I agree with much of her opinion; the other part of her I find not that funny or complimentary to us as a species.

It used to be spin meisters on the Left drove me crazy- and I still resent the status quo bias, but these days I just don't want to hear little kids insulting one another from either party.

I'm too old for that. 49 and I'm just too old to think of it as either helpful or entertainment.

I watch Brit Hume, The Beltway Boy, Sunday Show, Bill OReily (for different reasons) on Fox. I like Gibson's "My Word".

munk
 
I watch The News Hour, NOW, Washington Week In Review, Meet the Press, and of course The McLaughlin Group, one of my favorites. I miss the show Buckley used to have. He was right wing as all get out but he'd have both sides on there arguing on his show.

A really cool show I catch on the way home from work on the radio is BBC's
" The World" I like it because it isn't quite as US centric as most of our news.
 
Bwray and Hollow and et all :

The shooting and subsequent heart attack is painful to hear about. "oh no" my heart says, "this is awful".

I'm not 'mad' at Cheney-- It's complicated- I mean, I wasn't there and this is all far removed from me- he's the VP for Christ's sakes and I'm just a Montanian. But as a gunnie and hunter, it hurts a little, doesn't it? I don't care that Cheney is a Republican, and I like to think my reaction would not be any different if he were a Democrat, though that's presupposing I'm a nice guy, and I don't know that I am.

But it is just plain awful. What next? The heart attack leads to surgery and the man dies. Now Mad Magazine takes over; Cheney, whose heart is none too good, also dies. The surgeon dies from the stress- he strokes out.

Bush starts to panic and makes a blunder on the International arena. France is nuked accidently as a plane flies over their airspace in difiance of Franc'es no fly zone for the mean US.

Hunting is abolished in the US. People are out of work.
The bird that Cheney was shooting at gets hit by a sedan a couple of weeks later and has to be pried out of the grill...quite dead.


munk
 
munk said:
Bwray and Hollow and et all :

The shooting and subsequent heart attack is painful to hear about. "oh no" my heart says, "this is awful".

I'm not 'mad' at Cheney-- It's complicated- I mean, I wasn't there and this is all far removed from me- he's the VP for Christ's sakes and I'm just a Montanian. But as a gunnie and hunter, it hurts a little, doesn't it? I don't care that Cheney is a Republican, and I like to think my reaction would not be any different if he were a Democrat, though that's presupposing I'm a nice guy, and I don't know that I am.

But it is just plain awful. What next? The heart attack leads to surgery and the man dies. Now Mad Magazine takes over; Cheney, whose heart is none too good, also dies. The surgeon dies from the stress- he strokes out.

Bush starts to panic and makes a blunder on the International arena. France is nuked accidently as a plane flies over their airspace in difiance of Franc'es no fly zone for the mean US.

Hunting is abolished in the US. People are out of work.
The bird that Cheney was shooting at gets hit by a sedan a couple of weeks later and has to be pried out of the grill...quite dead.


munk

Good one:D

Not sure what your point is but but my take is there's not really any political angle to the whole thing.

I guess we could say that Cheney went after the target without thinking about the amount of collateral damage he would inflict and that might be a symptom of a broader dysfunctional approach to certain aspects of governing, but that would definately fall into the category of:jerkit: :yawn:

My take is he messed up and shot that guy and it's embarassing for him and unfortunate for that guy.

On the other hand if in some way it raises the consciousness about safe hunting practices it could be a good thing.

Still, I wonder what would be the reaction if Clinton shot somebody in the face. Oh wait- he did;) (sorry, couldn't resist a Clinton joke):p
 
Still, I wonder what would be the reaction if Clinton shot somebody in the face. Oh wait- he did>>>>>>>>


That's a little over the line...but what the hey. I was going to say Clinton's Karma was that if he shot someone it would not be on the face.

I like your idea of raising awareness of hunter safety. Darn right.


munk
 
Munk and Holow...LOL...ROTFLMAO...nice. This has been a great thread. I feel bad for Cheney and the guy he shot. I learn a lot from both of you guys and your banter.:thumbup:
 
hollowdweller said:
I'm pretty liberal but I don't like liberal or conservative talk radio or tv. If I hear the news I want the news. If I want discussion I want to hear both sides.

Thanks HD, I can relate to that better than anything else I've heard today. I think what i need now is a new khuk.:D
 
Munk, my advise on turning 50 is to not lose control of the event and what it expresses. It doesn't have to be a negative thing or even a "gee this is so bad all I can do is laugh about it over black baloons and laxative bottles" celebration. Get out and do something you enjoy and tell yourself how many more good years you have left to celebrate your life. You'll live longer and better if you do.

In terms of TV news/talk, I like Meet the Press (Russert is equally tough on everyone), Lou Dobbs (an advocate for the middle class who decries illegal immigration, outsourcing, offshoring, corporate control of congress and the consequent widening gap between rich folks and the rest of us poor slobs), The Newshour (so balanced it's almost boring - lowers my blood pressure) and at least one of the network news programs (still trying mightily to detect the supposed liberal bias). I'd be curious to know what you think about Lou Dobbs, but you have to watch more than just once to get the flavor.

Let us know what you plan to do on your 50th.
 
Actually Cliff, I've heard historians become pretty excited by a President who is willing to take casualties.

For my 5oth, Bwray, I don't intend on doing a thing- black balloons? No.



munk
 
I'm glad you're not doing the black balloon thing for your B-day, munk. I think those are cheesy and degrading, am I'm not one to get offended at a joke at my own expense. I think turning 50 is a milestone. A celebration and time for to reflect on all the things you've seen in half a century. 50 is the new 30, so they say. I think that's a good thing. Someone who is 50 should be assured that there is a lot of life left and things are not all down hill. They say that will medicine on the brink of so much that by the time my generation reaches 50 it could actually be middle age. I have a hard time believing that. Also, not to get down on the really old, but I don't want to make it to the "mummy years". Unless they can make me as active as a person that is in their 60's, i don't think living to 100 is really appealing to me.
The only downside to 50 being the new 30 is that people my age in their 20's have an excuse to just goof around for another decade. It drives me nuts to see a 28 year old slacker with no career or even a direction. Not because they have had a hard time in life, just because society says it's OK to waste your 20's acting like a teenager:rolleyes:

Jake
 
I wasted a number of years, alright.

You should feel pity on the slackers, though. They haven't learned life is for being and doing. They are disengaged. It may madden you to see their apparent indifference, but it is a kind of illness.

I once had a discussion with a man who sold tomato products to restaurants and food services. The product line was the best in the industry and well known. He did quite well for himself. His belief was that he was the best salesman for this product in the US. I contended lots of people could do his job. "Where are they? How come they aren't doing it?" He replied smugly.

CEO's and Rock Stars have this in common; they believe they are special and chosen- or earned their spots through talent and hard work.

I'm not saying this is not true in it's way. But I am saying on the Streets of Santa Cruz California in the 1970's I heard muscians every bit as good or better than Bob Dylan play.

My father worried about my generation.
"How many people do you think get to grow up and be Rock Stars?" He wanted to know. "How many openings do you think there are?"

And what makes anyone think the best win?


munk
 
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