Bushcraft vs. Survival.

Shotgun

Shotgun

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As I understand it survival is enduring for a few days until you get rescued while bushcraft is not enduring but having the skills to thrive or at the least live comfortably in the wild. My question is why is it that when you see people talking about a good survival knife they're usually talking about a large bowie/kukri style knife while bushcrafters usually talk about small and thinner blades like the mora or the like?

Is there a difference as far as skill level where a bushcrafter just doesn't need to chop or is it more of a cultural thing. "Bushcraft" from what I've read seems to be more a British concept where knives are evil weapons. I can just imagine what they'd think of a 10 inch long Busse or the like.:D . I'm more of a computer chair survivalist;) so I feel like I'm on the outside looking in and am trying to make sense of what I see on different sites and forums.
 
Those that find themselves in a survival situation didn't PLAN on finding themselves in one, whereas those that "bushcraft" on purpose know where they're going and pack accordingly.

The hiker that gets lost didn't plan on it, so if he brought a knife at all, it'll probably be a small one.

The "bushcrafter" might plan on practicing his shelter building skills and would take the knife he thinks would accomplish that feat the best. To me, that'll probably be a larger blade.

Me, I've come to appreciate a larger blade than I used to. Some things, you just gotta have some size.

.
 
Bushcraft is essentially the skills needed to live off the land.

Survival is delaying and avoiding death until rescued.

Many 'bushcrafters' nowadays seem to obsess too much on the 'craft' part of it and less on the 'bush' part of it that involves hunting. You can whittle and weave all of the neat little do-dads you want to, but it's all for naught if you starve to death.
 
Shotgun said:
As I understand it survival is enduring for a few days until you get rescued while bushcraft is not enduring but having the skills to thrive or at the least live comfortably in the wild. My question is why is it that when you see people talking about a good survival knife they're usually talking about a large bowie/kukri style knife while bushcrafters usually talk about small and thinner blades like the mora or the like?

Is there a difference as far as skill level where a bushcrafter just doesn't need to chop or is it more of a cultural thing. "Bushcraft" from what I've read seems to be more a British concept where knives are evil weapons. I can just imagine what they'd think of a 10 inch long Busse or the like.:D . I'm more of a computer chair survivalist;) so I feel like I'm on the outside looking in and am trying to make sense of what I see on different sites and forums.
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I doubt many English people would consider paying $400 dollars for a sharp piece of metal (busse) with a handle attached.
They are more likely to buy a quality $10.00 Machete and spend the balance on some good clothing or boots.
If and when you hear stories about how someone got lost and the quality of their "blade" saved them then I guess the Brits will wake up :yawn:
Their elite soldiers (SAS and Paras/RM Commandos) do extensive live of the land exercises in the Desert and Arctic and Jungle etc, never heard a mention of Busse's or SOG etc.
Anyway be good.
 
mrostov said:
Bushcraft is essentially the skills needed to live off the land.

Survival is delaying and avoiding death until rescued.

Many 'bushcrafters' nowadays seem to obsess too much on the 'craft' part of it and less on the 'bush' part of it that involves hunting. You can whittle and weave all of the neat little do-dads you want to, but it's all for naught if you starve to death.
Click to expand...


I think that's fairly accurate. From the posts I've read on WSS, I think the idea is to carry into the woods as much lightweight gear you think is necessary to meet all circumstances, balanced by your knowledge and skill to use that gear and the resources you find in the wild. So some will carry more gear than others. Some have the skills to easily fish, snare and hunt for food, with rifle or bow, find and purify water, while others with less skill will have to depend on the food and water they pack in. A lot of that is determined by the terrain your in, desert, woodlands, jungle or frozen tundra.

As far as cutlery goes, I would want three: A chopper, such as a hatchet, hawk, machete or bolo; a 4-5" fixed blade belt knife, such as a CS Master Hunter or Mora; and a multi-tool folder, such as a scout knife or SAK.
 
Shotgun said:
My question is why is it that when you see people talking about a good survival knife they're usually talking about a large bowie/kukri style knife while bushcrafters usually talk about small and thinner blades like the mora or the like?
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Just my opinion but, its just talk for the most part. Most probably feel its better to have too much than not enough. Example:

Q:
You are traveling through the mountains and your truck breaks down. What would you rather take out of the bed of the truck to get you back to civilization. A mountain bike? or a 4X4 800cc quad with reserve fuel tanks on both racks, yada yada yada...?
 
Rupestris said:
Example:

Q:
You are traveling through the mountains and your truck breaks down. What would you rather take out of the bed of the truck to get you back to civilization. A mountain bike? or a 4X4 800cc quad with reserve fuel tanks on both racks, yada yada yada...?
Click to expand...

STAY WITH YOUR VEHICLE, MR. KIM!! Ha! I couldn't resist that.

I agree with mrostov's statement, and Coldwood's idea of preferring to have too much rather than too little. I do not consider myself a survivalist, nor do I see myself as much of a bushcrafter, but both approaches interest me and I do enjoy playing in the woods.

When I first became intersted in the concepts mentioned above, I thought a bigger blade was better. Over time, I have gravitated to using a CS Master Hunter, Fallkniven F1, or a Mora, and carrying a hatchet for chopping and a saw of some sort. If weight is not an issue, I'll add a larger fixed blade (or two :D ) for fun.
 
"Fieldcraft" is the proper terminolgy here; and fieldcraft is what I do every summer when I go to the San De Cristo mountains of extended Texas (which some folks call NMex) for a couple weeks, spending the vast majority of my time far from the things of man. Hiking, rockclimbing, hunting, tracking and in general making certain that the skills I learned growing up as a kid in the woods of E. Texas do not atrophy.

It's also practiced fall and winter during hunting season.

"Survival" is something I practice everyday as a motorcyclist here in Houston, (as the G/D phucktards with cellphones make certain it's a daily thing - 'cus cellphones make ya stupid and especially so when you are the type of inane individual that thinks they "can" drive and talk simultaneously and do it competently).
 
I would think that a true survivor would be able to ballence the two carfts together. That is the way I try and do it anyway...
 
I always take a large knife 9" in preference to an axe i find the lenght of blade better if i needed to batton for a fire and chopping etc.Unfortunately the baby that cries loudest gets fed first i.e the non understanding sheeple in the uk are the majority and we unlucky individuals that enjoy and respect edged tools feel the backlash.I woukd quite happily pay $400 for a busse if the waiting time were not so long and also the prices even for production knives in the u.s are way lower than is available in th u.k.So don't think all the british are anti blade/big blade etc,it's just the crap political environment we live in.I know the value of a knife for outdoor use.
 
Believe me, Plenty of Brits have large blades that they regularly use for Bushcraft/Survival/Wilderness Pursuits. I myself regularly carry a BK9 or SRKW Battle Rat as MY WSK. If travelling lighter, Id probably carry a Kabar or BK7, usually strapped to my Bergen rather than hanging off my belt.
I enjoy hiking & will often practice various techniques for shelter building, firestarting etc when out and about, its NOT a survival situation as Im only practicing, but its what I like to call "Wilderness Pursuits!"
There ARE alot of outdoor folks who carry Moras as their WSKs & they could do alot worse. I think the problem is that many less-knowledgable people carry a BIGGGGGGG blade & think theyre all set to take on whatever mother nature throws at them. Its less important what sort of tool (or how big it is!) that you have & more important that you know how to use it.
An awful lot of British outdoor folks wouldnt spend $400 on a blade, as they dont need to, but obviously when one considers the harsh conditions encountered in on our Moors & Mountains, $400 WOULD be well spent on good quality boots, windproofs, breathable fabrics etc.
 
mrostov said:
Bushcraft is essentially the skills needed to live off the land.

Survival is delaying and avoiding death until rescued.

.
Click to expand...


Interesting take. Incorrect but interesting. The animals I eat while survival training very much dissagree with you.

Survival is just that survival. Death while waiting for rescue is not survival no matter how you slice it.

Do I need to know how to whittle a button or spoon to live? I doubt it.


Skam
 
Dang. I am getting in on this one kinda late. I guess I could give my opinions by just doing cut-and-paste quotes, because parts of my answer have been given by several people here. But I won't.

Bushcraft, woodcraft, fieldcraft, pretty much one and the same to me, involve learning skills that are needed to spend time in a wilderness (read non-tamed environment) without hauling all of the trappings of civilization with me. The exact list these skills vary from one environment to another. And among individuals depending upon their needs, abilities, and interests.

Survival, to me, encompasses being prepared to "McGuyver", and use skills, prepared and scavenged materials, and techniques in order to overcome an unexpected adverse event. This is not at all limited to a wilderness setting, though the range of possibilities could include such an environment, in which case some basic bushcraft, woodcraft, fieldcraft skills could come in handy. A survival situation could happen anywhere at most any time.

I'm not too sure I added anything not already said by others, but maybe I said it in a different way.

Fire when ready Gridley!

Codger
 
Survival vs Bushcraft does make as much sense to me as saying...

Survival vs Primitive Living

Whereas making it 72 hours requires a certain set of Survival Skills.

And, Bushcraft being skills for sustained primitive living.

Obviously, many of the skills (Bushcraft) acquired from Primitive Living can lend themself to surival. And interestingly, there are some Bushcrafters that would perform poorly under a survival situation - heard of a guy at Rabbit Stick that had mastered the hand drill but had difficulty lighting a fire with a match because they didn't know how to properly light it.

Regarding a Survival Skills vs Bushcraft knife, the more I learn about both, the more I want my knife to be as simple as possible, and a 4" blade is more than enough. If I need to do more than baton the occasional wrist size wood, I hope I have an axe.
 
I view "survival" as "getting by" with your skills and your gear until you can end your ordeal.

I view "bushcraft" as "surviving in style.":D
 
Danno4017 said:
I doubt many English people would consider paying $400 dollars for a sharp piece of metal (busse) with a handle attached.
They are more likely to buy a quality $10.00 Machete and spend the balance on some good clothing or boots.
If and when you hear stories about how someone got lost and the quality of their "blade" saved them then I guess the Brits will wake up :yawn:
Their elite soldiers (SAS and Paras/RM Commandos) do extensive live of the land exercises in the Desert and Arctic and Jungle etc, never heard a mention of Busse's or SOG etc.
Anyway be good.
Click to expand...

I dunno about that have you seen the price of ray mears knives go for on ebay the hand made Alan woods version have gone for well over 400 pounds, that’s almost 800 dollars.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ray-Mears-Woo...ryZ16042QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think on the whole most British bushcrafter's use an axe or saw over a large knife. I think the general opinion is the axe is simply the more effective tool in a northern environment whereas a large knife is more suited for use in tropical rainforest. It has to be said that a large knife still has rambo connotations and its use discouraged by bushcraft schools and forums (strangely bill hooks are quite popular)
 
Shotgun said:
Is there a difference as far as skill level where a bushcrafter just doesn't need to chop or is it more of a cultural thing.
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I'll venture a guess - the British bushcrafters don't chop as much. They live on an island and there is probably a cultural disposition not to chop up wood when in the outdoors.

This is just a guess - my reasoning follows from reading Nessmuk's classic text:

http://www.lostrock.net/websites/ctfischerknives/pdf_flash/Nessmukbook.pdf

Nessmuk, obviously someone who loves and cherishes the outdoors, actually recommends stripping bark from live trees. Doing such nowadays (whether in Britain or the Americas) is unthinkable. During Nessmuk's time, the forest was considered to be an inexhaustible resource - but now it no longer is. Stripping bark from live trees is culturally unacceptable.

Brits probably have a more acute sense of how exhaustible the forest is - and so there is probably a cultural taboo against chopping away when in the woods. In the Americas we're still blessed with relatively intact forests (or at least large isolated tracts of intact forest) so it's still culturally acceptable to chop away when venturing into the forest.
 
The folks at BushcraftUK have entire threads discussing the difference between "bushcraft" and "survival." The consensus there is that there are significant differences between the two.

I'm not so sure. I see a lot of overlap when it comes to discussing the actual skills involved -- more commonality than difference. Lots of discussion of shelter, water, fire, navigation.

One thing seems to me to be true; the emphasis in bushcraft is not staying alive until you get out of a fix that was unintended. Bushcrafters prepare to go into the "bush" and practice skills. So less discussion of signaling - but still some.

As for the "big" knife vs. "small" knife debate, that is hardly a defining divide between bushcrafters and survival folk. People at died-in-the-wool survival sites argue endlessly about "big" vs. "small" vs. folding vs. fixed vs. saws vs. axes.

How about, whatever works for you?

And if you don't know what works for you, you are not practicing the skills that are requred to effectively use any tool.
 
StuToffee said:
Believe me, Plenty of Brits have large blades that they regularly use for Bushcraft/Survival/Wilderness Pursuits. I myself regularly carry a BK9 or SRKW Battle Rat as MY WSK. If travelling lighter, Id probably carry a Kabar or BK7, usually strapped to my Bergen rather than hanging off my belt.
I enjoy hiking & will often practice various techniques for shelter building, firestarting etc when out and about, its NOT a survival situation as Im only practicing, but its what I like to call "Wilderness Pursuits!"
There ARE alot of outdoor folks who carry Moras as their WSKs & they could do alot worse. I think the problem is that many less-knowledgable people carry a BIGGGGGGG blade & think theyre all set to take on whatever mother nature throws at them. Its less important what sort of tool (or how big it is!) that you have & more important that you know how to use it.
An awful lot of British outdoor folks wouldnt spend $400 on a blade, as they dont need to, but obviously when one considers the harsh conditions encountered in on our Moors & Mountains, $400 WOULD be well spent on good quality boots, windproofs, breathable fabrics etc.
Click to expand...

Another factor,and only you will know what I am talking about,is that hiking up such as Kinder Scout is hard enough without lugging along a knife that weighs a ton strapped to your other kit !!!:D
 
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