Bushcrafters watch out

Animals are tool users. It's been documented. I don't buy that this guy lit a fire but I believe the rest of the video.
 
Difference between a Male and Female Human at the genetic level
1.8%

Difference between a male chimp and a male human at the genetic level
1%
 
I did not communicate well.

The critter throw some twigs against a tipi fire lay, partially knocking it over. He strikes a match and drops it. He pokes a fire with a stick. What he does not do is build or light a fire.

The fact that this video does not show a critter building or starting a fire does not mean that it cannot take place. It does suggest that whoever made this video is dodgy.

You are, of course, ware of the folks who are fighting to have full "human rights" extended to animals.
 
Okay, I see the problem here.

We all want to see a primate start a fire without matches or a lighter or a montage. I'm not going to say I don't believe it's possible, but now I'm curious.

This might be one of those things that happens all the time but by virtue of a human being present to film it we automatically negate its unedited plausibility.
 
Jens Schuetz said:
Maybe this will change your mind?
https://youtu.be/5XBdzKJ_JdM
Click to expand...

He starts the fire and drops the butane lighter right next to the fire - within a couple of inches. Will he learn from the explosion? Probably, the female HS will spare him from that.

How do we know he learned this all on his own and was not taught? The narrator says so.

I remember the circus, and all the "tricks" that the animal actors had learned.

The film I love is the little monkeys rolling, for them, massive stones, from a stream bed over a mile to a grove of nut trees. The nuts have very thick shells. The monkeys put the nuts on a flat rock and, with tremendous effort, raise the roughly spherical stones they had transported and drop them on the nuts. That is pretty complex behavior and involves planning.

And science says chimps are capable of complex behavior to kill each other - or humans. http://news.discovery.com/animals/zoo-animals/chimps-angry-andrew-oberle-120702.htm As noted, they are genetically close to us. :eek:
 
If the Chimp isn't intelligent(and I'm not saying its a person) because he had to be taught, then show me a single human that learned to read and write for themselves with no help...
All humans are otherwise just animals taught tricks following your own logic, though you are showing quite a bit of hate and I think its effecting rational thought processes.

I am pretty sure no one wanted to get dragged into a discussion about if Chimps are persons, I also know that falls under political discussion and does not belong in this forum or thread.

Its a freakin video of a primate eating marshmellows, not a nuclear exchange between Russia China and the USA about to wipe Human Civilization from the planet...
Though that could be happening at the very moment you read this and you dont yet know... that would suck? wouldn't it? :P

Thomas Linton said:
He starts the fire and drops the butane lighter right next to the fire - within a couple of inches. Will he learn from the explosion? Probably, the female HS will spare him from that.

How do we know he learned this all on his own and was not taught? The narrator says so.

I remember the circus, and all the "tricks" that the animal actors had learned.

The film I love is the little monkeys rolling, for them, massive stones, from a stream bed over a mile to a grove of nut trees. The nuts have very thick shells. The monkeys put the nuts on a flat rock and, with tremendous effort, raise the roughly spherical stones they had transported and drop them on the nuts. That is pretty complex behavior and involves planning.

And science says chimps are capable of complex behavior to kill each other - or humans. http://news.discovery.com/animals/zoo-animals/chimps-angry-andrew-oberle-120702.htm As noted, they are genetically close to us. :eek:
Click to expand...
 
Phoynix said:
If the Chimp isn't intelligent(and I'm not saying its a person) because he had to be taught, then show me a single human that learned to read and write for themselves with no help...
All humans are otherwise just animals taught tricks following your own logic, though you are showing quite a bit of hate and I think its effecting rational thought processes.

I am pretty sure no one wanted to get dragged into a discussion about if Chimps are persons, I also know that falls under political discussion and does not belong in this forum or thread.

Its a freakin video of a primate eating marshmellows, not a nuclear exchange between Russia China and the USA about to wipe Human Civilization from the planet...
Though that could be happening at the very moment you read this and you dont yet know... that would suck? wouldn't it? :P
Click to expand...

1. I agree completely with your first sentence.
2. Hate? I question the accuracy of the implication of video that the critter built and started a fire - as have others. I, as least, need not "hate" to disagree. We have many disagreements here. It's the Internet. We try to be adult. Obviously, YMMV.
3. This was not exactly a strict bushcrafting thread.
4. If this is "political" our good mods will take care of it. I have reported my post.
5. Not sure if the discussion of nuclear war is "political" but it is surely is not about marshmallows.
 
This is too interesting a discussion for me, at least, to quibble over slightly off topic references.
 
Can primates start fires without man-made tools or other interventions... that is the question. I looked everywhere in the science journals I have access to, and find nothing. Google Scholar is completely empty-handed.

If there is documented evidence that primates can make fire, then I have no leads. That a primate can learn how to use man-made combustibles seems too obvious to warrant discussion. But the fact that it isn't obvious is the most interesting part of all of this.
 
Ok here is the video I first seen. It's the same one just longer with a women saying foolish things rather than a guy. The video was edited in your version IMHO for good reason as it's less believable if that's even possible.

[video=youtube;_ZEBrHe4hVs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZEBrHe4hVs[/video]

"master something so human" I really like the part where the chimp (no I don't care if it's a bonobo, chimp or Doctor Zaius) actually drops the match some distance away from the wood. This happens around :38. It must have been hard to make the critter hold it that long. Then they cut to it putting a stick (not really) into an established fire. The water bottle part was so goofy they rightfully removed it from your shorter linked video. Shame on the humans involved. The ends do not justify the means. The truth still matters. Again why humanize something? When has humanizing animals ever worked out. Why isn't it enough for something to be what it is?

"If given the chance other primates have the potential to be just as smart as we are"

Given the chance? A chance at what? To play human through a series of tricks edited together to make a video lie? That's only something foolish people would do. Maybe get those same people to pretend to be a chimp in the wild for a few months and see what happens. Different isn't a bad thing. It doesn't diminish something however IMHO creating a false narrative does.
 
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