Bushings? (Sebenza and others)

Walking Man

Walking Man

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This one's directed at DaveH, of course, anyone can jump in too.
I noticed something the other day that screamed out to me in a subtle way, and that is that both Timberline Lightfoot models have bushings in their pivots. I remember that sometime ago that DaveH (IIRC, excuse me if I'm incorrect) said that this makes up one of the big differences between Sebbies and those other guys. Something that was mentioned on the Timberline website was that the bushing made for supersmooth opening. Since I actually own the pistolgrip (not really used), I decided to check this is, and lo and behold, the dang thing really does open super smooth. My question is, I guess, does this make the Timberline knives an excellent value for the money or what?
Okay, sorry for rambling, thanks for reading, please deposit thoughts here:
 
good value depends on many things, but having a pivot bushing helps, IMO. I don't know anything about timberline.
 
As far as I know, Microtech also uses bronze bushings.. Most companies and makers don't, due to the cost factor.
 
I have owned a few Sebenza's, and I really don't care about bushings either way.
Now I have nothing but Spyderco's, and I am good to go with them, and they have no bushing. Makes no difference to me, but I would definitely not pay any extra for a knife with a bushing.
 
The bushing is nice, I guess, but I have to say that the smoothest action I've EVER had on a folder is on either my Buck 172 or an Obenauf. Neither of these have bushings to my knowledge, and they're just fine.

-Anthony
 
Remember that the smoothness of the action is not the only benefit of a pivot bushing (nor is it an intrinsic property). The main advantage of a pivot bushing, in my opinion, is to maintain the proper clearance between the handles and the blade so that no time is wasted on adjusting the pivot to find the sweet spot that minimizes blade play and maximizes ease of opening.

And that is something for which I am willing to pay extra money :)

Matthew
 
What Starfish said, I was going to.

I think if people are happy with no bushing then that's fine with me, but personally my experience has not been good with expensive knives (over $100) that don't have the bushing.
 
A tapered roller bearing pivot may be even smoother than a bushing:

bearing-tapered-roller1.gif
 
I've found some of my Benchmade AXIS lock knives, like the 710, 806, Ares, to be the smoothest opening knives I have. They make my Sebenza feel rough.
 
So is the sebenza rough? Or is is smooth to open, but just doesn't flick open?
 
IIRC, some of the Buck models, like the 110, have bushings. There was a thread on this recently in the Buck forum.
 
My Timberline Pistol Grip is REALLY smooth. It's definately going to get some pocket time now.
 
Darrel Ralph AXD

Strider AR and SMF

Chris Reeve Sebenza

They're all smooth and have extremely little or no play


cliff
 
I think several of you are confusing bushings with washers. There's a big difference.

A bushing is a sturdy tube of metal that passes through an oversize pivot hole in the blade; the pivot screw in turn passes through the pivot, and the bushing is "sandwiched" between the liners/handle slabs. What the bushing does is: A) strengthen the pivot, by providing a lot more material through the blade, that's less likely to shear under load; and B) regulate the tension on the blade tang. When you tighten the pivot screw, the handles compress against the bushing rather than the tang itself, leaving the blade free to move.

Washers are much simpler, just thin, wide discs of plastic or metal that provide a large, smooth bearing surface against the blade tang. Most folding knives have them, except those with all-polymer handles (Spyderco, for example), where the friction between blade tang and the handles is already low. However, unless the pivot also has a bushing, the tension on the blade is determined solely by the pivot screw (in in the case of Spyderco FRN CLip-Its, pivot rivet), and can range from loose and floppy to immobile.

Phosphor bronze washers are considered to be better than the more typical nylon washers due to their greater rigidity, which better prevents horizontal blade play. Both nylon and phosphor bronze are soft and self-lubricating against steel, and can provide very smooth blade movement.

For the recod, the Sebenza has both a pivot bushing (in, fact, it was the first to do so), and phosphor bronze washers.
 
I don't see how the bushings have any effect on how smooth the Sebenza opens.
Correct me if I'm off base here, but does'nt the Sebenza still have a ball-detent like every other frame-lock that I've ever seen?
If so, then bushings or not, the locking portion of the frame still must flex outward so that the ball itself can escape the "divot", and then there is still friction as the ball slides on the side of the tang until it locks.
I cannot see how the bushing reduces this friction?

The only purpose I can see for the bushing is to prevent over-tightening of the pivot screw.

Allen.
 
allenC said:
Correct me if I'm off base here, but does'nt the Sebenza still have a ball-detent like every other frame-lock that I've ever seen?
Click to expand...

That is the major source of resistance, the bushing doesn't influence that like you noted. You can also reduce teh action by overtightening, just not as much as you can with other folders. This usually isn't an issue, just adjust and loctite. By it isn't a concern to me personally, I have lots of blades with no adjustable piviots, FRN's, stainless, and stockman patterns.

-Cliff
 
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