Busse and Randall knives

5

500jefferyDK

Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Messages
475
Gentlemen

It seems like that Busse combat knives is todays military knife very much like Randall was back in the days! (I know that lots of service men are still using the Randal made knives)
Busse seems to be going down the same road like Randall where collectors stash up on knives so that the users of these knives have to wait or pay top $$ on ebay or other places where these knives surface for the highest bidder.
To me this looks like a problem that was not intended from either the producer or the collector and diffently not the soldiers or users of thise cool and fine knives.
I know that you do not have to wait 4 years for a Busse knife but do you think that Busse knives are heading down the same road as Randall knives?
That would be a shame unles you own +30 busses and would like to make a profit.:D

PS I am not trying to stars a fire her, just want the opinion from some of you hard core users and collectors.

Cheers,

André
 
i beleive busse is actively trying to change that, as seen by there new line protocol. the idea being that if you cant produce 20 models at once and get them shipped out within 6 months, then only produce 2 or 3 at a time and keep the wait times down.

while its a different way of doing things then pretty much any other knife bussiness out there - there is a knife or set of knives always available directly from busse combat that can be at your door within 6 months.

so in that regard, i'd like to think they are avoiding the extensive wait times in the ability to get a knife directly from the company (though, perhaps not the model your looking for)
 
I was lucky to get a EU-17 handle MOJO at the yard sale two weeks back:D
The style of INFI I was looking for was not available for ordering on the companys site. I wanted a BM and wil get one some day, in hte mean time the MOJO will have to do :D :D

Cheers,

André
 
Busse cannot control how his knives are used. It may an unfortunate side-effect of success, but who really loses? The collector? no. Jerry? no. IMO, it's going to happen anyway, so why try to turn it around? I don't think that Jerry's really that concerned about the black holes of INFI that some HOGs have. If he were, he wouldn't ever have created his limited edition knives.
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ADDED: Also, one advantage that us collectors give newer Busse fans is the opportunity to own older knives, otherwise they'd only be able to buy the newest knives.
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ADDED: Jerry has always made sure that his military orders come first. I don't how Randall military orders, but I would think this would be one way to make sure these knives get used.
 
I understand your concern. I believe the Busse Basic line was created for that very purpose, and now that Swamp Rat has come around, there will be that much more for our service men and women.

Also, i know that Jerry does alot of work for our troops that we never see.
 
I think that the current system of Busse is quite different from Randall, and as Seth points out, there are generally always some kind of Busee available at a given time, either from Busse or from the Company Store.

Just got the current Randall catalog in today's mail, and I must say that despite the 4.5 year wait, I'm thinking about putting down a deposit. More than one knife caught my eye. At least I'll have one more interesting thing to think about for the next four+ years. :D
 
500jefferyDK said:
Gentlemen

It seems like that Busse combat knives is todays military knife very much like Randall was back in the days!
Click to expand...

How can this be true? Everyone knows that the knives used in the military are only those advertised within two pages of the monthly Tactical Knives story on what the military is using, which by coincidence always seem to be those same advertised knives.:rolleyes:
 
MikeH said:
How can this be true? Everyone knows that the knives used in the military are only those advertised within two pages of the monthly Tactical Knives story on what the military is using, which by coincidence always seem to be those same advertised knives.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Todays knife mags suck. I use to like the Combat knives magazine, it was the best. It had similar articles to the old Test Fire mag for guns, where each knife was given 2-3 page review. And there was many reviews in one mag well written. Now it's all about purty knives and ninja bs knives. I won't even subscribe to them anymore. They are only worth about 1-2 purchases a year.
 
Personally I carry a dark ops knife for my covert deanimation procedures and leave the busses in the safe where they're nice and cozy.
 
500, I think your concerns are warranted, but I think that the Business has its finger on the pulse of those concerns. Jerry's custom wait list is several years. But the recent SatinJackTac offering, that lasted for quite a while, was in the low $200s with a fairly short wait time, iirc. Knives don't get much more battle oriented than the SJT, and anybody who's big into knives will have to admit that that much knife in the low $200s is a heck of a bargain. So while there may be enough evidence to cause concern, I don't believe there is any evidence to make an objective statement about Busse Combat getting away from it's "core values".

Rant on

Ditto what DirtDiver said about SRKW: they are supposed to be picking up BC's slack in the lower price ranges. The real concern that is beginning to be voiced is whether or not SRKW is keeping or failing in that ideal. People who know better know that the sub$100 knives that SRKW was offering were incredible values. The operative word in that last sencence is, "was". A lot of guys need a knife within 10 days of ordering (many times through no fault of their own given callouts and such). So while I don't sympathize at all with the guys complaining about expensive ratweilers that weren't specifically designed with the PFC in mind, I do sympathize with the PFC who has to get a CS-SRK because the Coots are out of production. (ain't nothin wrong with an SRK, just using it to make the point).
But that's sympathy, not criticism: businesses must compromise in order to achieve the best results for customer and profit, and I'm sure that a few weeks from now we'll all be plesantly surprised with what both companies' crews have been doing with the down time. To say that they should have had a new line up program ready to pop into the CNC machine the minute the last of the old line popped out is kinda armchair quarterback, in my opinion.

Rant off

Well, I guess that answered a bit more than you asked, but if you haven't been read in on some of the dissatisfaction going around maybe this'll help you stay clear headed about it.
 
Guyon said:
I think that the current system of Busse is quite different from Randall, and as Seth points out, there are generally always some kind of Busee available at a given time, either from Busse or from the Company Store.

Just got the current Randall catalog in today's mail, and I must say that despite the 4.5 year wait, I'm thinking about putting down a deposit. More than one knife caught my eye. At least I'll have one more interesting thing to think about for the next four+ years. :D
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I have a little experience with Randall as they are only about 2 1/2 hours from me in Orlando (same as Disney World). Been to the shop/house several times. They have a very nice museum and always treated me like family coming to visit. Although they will sell directly to whoever walks in, I have never left with a knife, any knife, due to there never being any in stock. If you wanted one in the relatively near future(non military) it would have to be a secondary market sale, or one of their distributors. Your selection would be limited, and you would be paying a premium. With Busse it is quite different, and although we would all like instant gratification (me included) the wait time IMO is certainly more reasonable and worth it for what is ultimately delivered. I like Randalls, and have several on order, but it is hard to get excited about a knife that won't be arriving for approx. 54 months. Now compare that to 2 weeks even in Busse time. :D
 
cleaner145 said:
I have a little experience with Randall as they are only about 2 1/2 hours from me in Orlando (same as Disney World). Been to the shop/house several times. They have a very nice museum and always treated me like family coming to visit. Although they will sell directly to whoever walks in, I have never left with a knife, any knife, due to there never being any in stock. If you wanted one in the relatively near future(non military) it would have to be a secondary market sale, or one of their distributors. Your selection would be limited, and you would be paying a premium. With Busse it is quite different, and although we would all like instant gratification (me included) the wait time IMO is certainly more reasonable and worth it for what is ultimately delivered. I like Randalls, and have several on order, but it is hard to get excited about a knife that won't be arriving for approx. 54 months. Now compare that to 2 weeks even in Busse time. :D
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wow,,,

I hadnt realized that the current wait for a Randall was 54 months,,,the last time I checked it was 48:eek: :eek: :eek:

I really like some of the Randalls,,especially the Model 1, and have come very close to ordering one directly from Randall,,but that long of a delay just didnt appeal to me.

but you can go to AG Russell's site and order them and have them within a few days,,, but the price is slightly higher, but the higher price will greatly justify waiting the 4-5 year for the blade.

if I can ever get caught up on buying all these Busse's and manage to put back a few extra dollars,,,then I am gonna order me one of the Randall Model 1's from AG Russells.:cool:
 
GALAXYTECH said:
wow,,,

I hadnt realized that the current wait for a Randall was 54 months,,,the last time I checked it was 48:eek: :eek: :eek:

I really like some of the Randalls,,especially the Model 1, and have come very close to ordering one directly from Randall,,but that long of a delay just didnt appeal to me.

but you can go to AG Russell's site and order them and have them within a few days,,, but the price is slightly higher, but the higher price will greatly justify waiting the 4-5 year for the blade.

if I can ever get caught up on buying all these Busse's and manage to put back a few extra dollars,,,then I am gonna order me one of the Randall Model 1's from AG Russells.:cool:
Click to expand...

Now it's late and my math may be a little off, but expected delivery for new orders is Sept. 2010. That's about 4 1/2 years = apprx. 54 months. That 2 weeks is looking better all the time. :D As for getting caught up on Busse's I have a long way to go before I can come close to some of these Umber Hogs that call this trough home. :eek: :D
 
cleaner145 said:
Now it's late and my math may be a little off, but expected delivery for new orders is Sept. 2010. That's about 4 1/2 years = apprx. 54 months. That 2 weeks is looking better all the time. :D
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incredible :eek: :eek:

no doubt about that "2 weeks" wait for the Busse:D

much shorter wait for a defenitly tougher knife :thumbup: :D
 
Gentlemen

Thanks for the answers.
It looks like Jerry and his crew takes good care of the servicemen and other proffisionel users.
Just a shame that some of the cool old models are hard to find, but maybe that is half the fun!!! naaaaa only funny if you end up getting what you want. Thinking about a knife that you can not obtain drives you crazy Ja?

Cheers,

André
 
I was just on ebay and saw a Camp Tramp for a "buy now" price of $300.00!! Is this supposed to be from the line for those who can't afford to buy a Busse? I would love to have a Swamp Rat as a user but their prices are just as high as Busse Combat. So instead I will just end up buying INFI (not like that is a bad thing).

My point is a lot of these knives may be for those in certain Occupational Specialites, there are many service members out there that know about Swamp Rat and Busse but don't have the time (due to deployments) to wait for one, once they are available can't buy them on the secondary market and are certainly not issued them.

Please don't mistake my post as a knock on either company as I think they have a great product. I am just putting some info out there on a small segment of the user market.
 
charger02 said:
I was just on ebay and saw a Camp Tramp for a "buy now" price of $300.00!! Is this supposed to be from the line for those who can't afford to buy a Busse? I would love to have a Swamp Rat as a user but their prices are just as high as Busse Combat.
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https://host4.apollohosting.com/swampratknifeworks/Order/order.mv?

ebay prices have nothing to do with how much the knives cost from the company itself.
ratweiler is 175$ from the store.

if your looking solely for an older model that isnt being produced by swamp rat anymore, then yes, your prices will tend to be higher, sometimes on par with some of the lower models of busse knives direct from busse combat (like the sfno). but to say that swamp rat is just as expensive as busse is false.



your right in that if you want a knife within 5 days directly from the company, your probably not going to get it unless you call and they have overstock.
 
Good point Seth, I should have added on the secondary market. Not from the store itself.
 
I was in the USMC for six years and I will tell you what I know from my experience. Most people in the military are not going to spend that much on a knife. When I was in (85 to 91) the most expensive knife I saw being used in the field was a Gerber. Most of the guys went to the PX and bought a Ka-Bar or something along those lines and they could care less about what steel it was made from. I am a wanna-be collector now, and I have now and in the past owed knives from Randall, Strider, Emerson, William Henry, Jerry Hossom, Benchmade, Chris Reeve, Gerber, Ka-Bar, Ontario, Spyderco, Cold Steel, SOG, and some I don't ever remember. I am currently on a Busse kick and bought my first Busse the other day. It is an old school SHBA, with any luck, I will find an Infi Busse to go along with my new purchase.

The point of this post is, if I was in the service today, I could afford any knife I wanted, but I am still not going to bring a very expensive knife to the field. I would probably order a sturdy fixed blade from Ontario and an Emerson folder and call it a day. I also might take my Green Beret w/kydex sheath. Most collectors (Me included) collect expensive high end knives to admire and show their friends. Most of us hope our knives will appreciate in value(This justifies our purchases to the wives) This certainly doesn't apply to everyone, so if you have a expensive knife that you use the hell out of, please don't be offended. I am only generalizing here.

The real point is, the best knife for the a hard core user is any knife that they happen to have. That is the honest truth, in the past, I was in the position to need a knife very badly, I remember it was a Ka-Bar double edged boot knife with a black coated blade. But I didn't know what steel it was made from and it really didn't make a difference. That knife was sharp and it was there when I needed it. The funny thing was it probably cost a fraction of any knife I own today.

To everyone out there, keep buying, selling and using steel. It is a great thing. Only people who have been bitten by the steel bug will understand you, but that is okay, I guess that is why this forum exists.

Keep'em sharp,
rjd
 
rjd said:
I was in the USMC for six years and I will tell you what I know from my experience. Most people in the military are not going to spend that much on a knife. When I was in (85 to 91) the most expensive knife I saw being used in the field was a Gerber. Most of the guys went to the PX and bought a Ka-Bar or something along those lines and they could care less about what steel it was made from. I am a wanna-be collector now, and I have now and in the past owed knives from Randall, Strider, Emerson, William Henry, Jerry Hossom, Benchmade, Chris Reeve, Gerber, Ka-Bar, Ontario, Spyderco, Cold Steel, SOG, and some I don't ever remember. I am currently on a Busse kick and bought my first Busse the other day. It is an old school SHBA, with any luck, I will find an Infi Busse to go along with my new purchase.

The point of this post is, if I was in the service today, I could afford any knife I wanted, but I am still not going to bring a very expensive knife to the field. I would probably order a sturdy fixed blade from Ontario and an Emerson folder and call it a day. I also might take my Green Beret w/kydex sheath. Most collectors (Me included) collect expensive high end knives to admire and show their friends. Most of us hope our knives will appreciate in value(This justifies our purchases to the wives) This certainly doesn't apply to everyone, so if you have a expensive knife that you use the hell out of, please don't be offended. I am only generalizing here.

The real point is, the best knife for the a hard core user is any knife that they happen to have. That is the honest truth, in the past, I was in the position to need a knife very badly, I remember it was a Ka-Bar double edged boot knife with a black coated blade. But I didn't know what steel it was made from and it really didn't make a difference. That knife was sharp and it was there when I needed it. The funny thing was it probably cost a fraction of any knife I own today.

To everyone out there, keep buying, selling and using steel. It is a great thing. Only people who have been bitten by the steel bug will understand you, but that is okay, I guess that is why this forum exists.

Keep'em sharp,
rjd
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rjd Welcome aboard - I agree that what you have stated is probably spot on with what you observed, but IMO that does not make it a good course of action, just a correct observation. I see the same thing with firearms and practice with them for L.E.O.'s. Our new Generation X,Y,Z etc.. officers have all cool toys like the latest and greatest cell phones with internet, GPS, cameras, email everything. They know how to use every feature. If you ask them what model firearm they carry that all changes. You probably will get the right brand "Glock" but model, forget it. Ask them the last time they practiced shooting and for the most part you will hear, "the last time we had range". Ask them if they ever practiced on their own, and most of them would not even be able to tell you where a private range is. So the tool that has the greatest amount of personal responsibility gets the least amount of attention. Knife steel please who cares, that is until you need it not to fail.

When my buddy of 20+ years was deployed to Afghanistan he sought me out for a good knife since he was going into combat and tired of breaking the brands you mentioned. He simply thru experience could not depend on them. I gave him one of my customs which I had no doubt could be relied on. A little over a year later when he got back he returned it albeit with some character marks. It had not saved his life, or killed any bad guys, but it had not broken when used as a pry bar or failed as a chopping tool. That is what mattered to him.
He knew better and planned ahead and thus brought the right equipment so he did not have to make due. If you know better, why not carry better? :D
 
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