Busse & tomahawk - anyone?

RokJok

RokJok

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Marsupial's thread on pairing a Paul's Hatchet with a SJ got me wondering if anyone already couples a Busse (or other blade) with a tomahawk. I'm interested in combining a tomahawk (probably ATC Next Generation Ranger Spike hawk or their tactical grade Vietnam hawk) with one of the bigger Busse combat grade knives, most likely a Steel Heart.

It strikes me that these two tools would go a long way as foundation pieces for a versatile kit that would stand you in good stead for a wide range of situations. The knife would cover all the usual cutting chores, food prep, limbing for shelter construction, poking & lighter levering, moderate chopping/hammering/smashing, and H2H combat. The hawk would come into play for more rigorous entry or intrusion work, heavier prying & levering, more serious chopping/hammering/smashing of thicker trees & materials, and H2H combat. Special thanks to Robert Humelbaugh at Survival Sheath Systems for alerting me to the potential that a hawk still offers in today's world.

Do any of you Busse fanatics out there currently carry a hawk & blade combination? If so, can you offer any recommendations or tips what to look for (and look out for) in the hawk, and when/where/how do you find the tools useful (especially non-intuitive uses). I'll cross-post this to the ATC & axe forums, so no need to point me there.

Many thanks in advance,
Greg
 
Greg,
I own and use two tomahawks on a pretty regular basis. Each serves its purpose well, but is suited towards more specific applications. My RR Spike Hawk, for example, is a good chopper, a great fighter, and an excellent thrower. It's big, substantial, and effective, but it's not my first choice when going out on extended travels on foot. Let's face it, this is a big, heavy hawk. It's not to be trifled with, and it doesn't let you forget its there. When you carry such a big, effective chopper, however, you won't need a Battle Mistress on your belt. You might want a Mean Street or a Satin Jack at most. The hawk will cover any chopping, digging, and prying tasks you run into - all you'll need your Busse for is its near-perfect edge for cutting, slashing, slicing, piercing, and yes, more cutting.

My other hawk is a Longhunter, made by Two Hawks. This, a relatively lightweight belt axe, is perfect for extended hiking, camping, exploring, and reconnoitering, where weight and size are important considerations. When carrying a hawk like this, however, you might have room to carry a slightly larger Busse to compliment it.

Overall, I'd say the most important considerations would be versatility and effectiveness for intended use. I do think it's fair to say that hawks compliment knives extremely well in all sorts of outdoor or tactical applications. That said, a large Busse will hack, chop, and generally spank almost as effectively as a tomahawk in 90% of situations. It's that other 10% you need to think about ;)
 
If you are not throwing it, then a hatchet is a directly better tool for woodcraft. However the only significant advantage offered by a quality hatchet over a quality large blade is when the wood is big enough that you can't directly open it with the SHBM (or whatever other large knife you prefer) and thus are forced to double notch. This is wood much larger than I would want outside of cutting wood down for the home wood stove. The hatchet also makes a better splitter, but the blade is overall much more versatile. The blades will tend to bind more than the hatchet, but generally this shouldn't be that problematic. Of course khukuris don't bind at all and will outchop hatchets, the 18" Ang Khola is one of my favorite bush blades.

The only area where a tomahawk gives an advantage over a hatchet is in regards to a spike as this gives you another couple of edges for breaking and hacking on things that would really extensively dull the primary edge. However tomahawks are vastly inferior to hatchets in all other aspects such as handle attachment, grip ergonomics, security, blade steel and hardness, bit profile, etc., that the one small advantages doesn't come close to bringing the performance anywhere near equal. The only real advantage to a tomahawk vs a large blade is the direct pseudo-stabbing power of a chop which would only be relevant if you were trying to kill a fairly large animal, which isn't a sensible thing to do up close. And it also makes ice cutting much easier than ice-picking with a knife. Again a khukuri can get very close in these respects to the tomahawk.

A strong combination would be a quality folding saw, a decent limbing blade and a small high performance cutting knife. The SHBM is a sort of combination of all of these, and becomes less attractive as soon as you carry one of the other pieces as it becomes redundant to that degree, a decent heavy khukuri just slants the one blade solution more towards the axe aspect. Another nice combination is the GB small forest axe for felling, bucking and light splitting, and a decent 18"+ machete (Barteaux) for lighter brush and again a nice small knife. If the vegetation is mainly soft then you can do all the felling, limbing and light brush work with the same blade, something like the 18" heavy duty Barteux or a large Kobra from HI, which can handle more woody vegetation while still cutting the light stuff very well.

-Cliff
 
I have always carried three knives on any outing,a belt knife(SJ),a swiss and a machete or kukri of some kind.Many years ago I carried a hatchet and for one reason or another have stopped and went to a larger blade.It all depends on the area I will be in such as a low or field type area with thick underbrush or stip mine areas I use a machete to keep my arms out of the briars.In open woods or in the mountains and sometimes on canoe trips I use various hatchets or camp axes(Estwing makes a good one).As cliff said a hatchet is great for splitting wood or chopping ice,or as I used to use a hatchet years back to cut wooden ground pegs for my steel traps,and hammer em in the ground.A small hatchet is also more beneficial when cutting up game like deer.Another interesting thing I have used hatchets for is as a hook and pull tool.By this I mean I would hook the bottom end of the hatchet over a root or rock in aid to pull my self up a steep bank.It could also be used as a grappling type hook for retreival of a lost item(I dont mean for climbing though!)I have completely sold myself on the usefulness of a small hatchet especially a concealable one,thats why I have ordered two today,One for my personal use another for a friend as a gift.I may consider having some type of a rig built for my PH and my SJ.
 
Cliff,

I realize that your focus on "woodcraft" may not include skinning/butchering. However, for skinning/butchering big game, I think that a hawk can have an advantage over a hatchet. For example, I like the curved, Ulu-like blade shape on Two Hawks' Competition model ( www.2hawks.net ) for skinning/butchering. The Longhunter isn't bad either. A GB Wildlife Hatchet doesn't have as good a blade shape for skinning, in my opinion. Furthermore, the curved hatchet handle gets in your way more than the straight handle on the hawk.

Of course, if you skin with a flay poll instead of a sharpened edge, the GB Hunter's Axe would come closer to hawk skinning/butchering performance than the Wildlife Hatchet would. I just haven't had that much experience with flay polls.
 
In regards to tomahawks I think that Ryan Johnson of www.rmjforge.com has some of the finest designs on the market today. The Eagle Talon Special Forces Hawk is awesome. Their new "Crash Axe" is also great. The feature I find so appealing in their big hawks is the integral, one-piece construction. What can be more solid than one piece construction? Nothing! They have been making Hawks for 16 years and they have obviously done their homework. I hope to pick up a couple myself at Blade Show 2002. Very cool.

Jerry
 
I've been asking for an INFI hawk for a long time.... I would definately prefer an INFI NG Ranger hawk... but if Jerry would do an INFI RMJ Forge... I'm there... just give me an INFI hawk :D
 
Lets keep this discussion centered on Hawks and Knives.

I really don't think any other personal comments are necessary.
 
RB,
I don't think anyone thinks you are an idiot. I think that we all got off on the wrong foot. This can easily happen when we are trying to communicate via such a non-personal medium.

Why don't you start another thread, so we don't hijack RokJok's and give us a little info about what you want the knife for. I'm sure you will get plenty of suggestions and pics if you want them on what Busse might best fit your needs.

I hope you stick around and join in our discussions :D:D
 
I see that Justin from ATC is browsing this forum. A ranger that we are all aware of. Some ones judgement I trust and respect!
 
As I stated in my previous post please start another thread if you want some suggestions on Busses. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Here on the Busse Forum we do not shy away from the hard questions, however, having said that there really is no need for personal comments. Personal Comments will most likely be answered in kind.

I'm happy to help if you care for my help.

If you are just looking for a fight you won't find it here.
 
Please let it go and stop attacking me. I am an ATC hawk man and have not 1 RMJ Forge hawk. However, If Jerry somehow got a deal to make an RMJ INFI hawk and NOT an ATC INFI hawk... YES, I would get it. Does that mean I can't be an "ATC" kind of guy?
It's because I LOVE and Believe in INFI... and Busse.

I sure hope somehow some way there is an INFI hawk... but it will probably come out when I am IN the Rangers after this summer.
 
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