Bussecraft awareness..the AD etc

[leatherman]

Stolen for my Sig Line
In before the lock!

Sweet.

 

[Al-Sheikh]

Very informative thread since I don't know much about bushcraft. I'd like to understand better what basic features make a good bushcraft knife in your opinion. Are my following assumptions correct?

1. no choil (call me naive, but I googled pics for "bushcraft knife" and the first three pages show only choilless knives)
2. short blade compared to busse standards, maybe between 3 and 5 inches
3. thin stock, which possibly translates into "anorexic" in busse termonology
4. tempered more for edge retention than toughness
5. comparably long and comfy handle. I simply cannot imagine carving for a long time with a three-finger-knife.

Am I way off? And if not, wouldn't the CABS be the dedicated Busse bushcraft knife?

 

[kdstrick]

When you say "bushcraft" I think "hippy" ... and it smells bad. :barf:

Bushcrafters need a 22 rifle, a 12 gauge and a fishing rod. and a Busse (or two or three). problem solved. :thumbup:


I'm an outdoorsman. I mostly kill or catch my food.

The need for a dedicated "bushcraft" knife eludes me...

There seems to be lots of great inexpensive knives to fill the "bushcraft" niche.

I am not sure that Busse would be well served to produce a blade with a very thin edge (skandi) that would likely cost much, much more than the simple Mora. Bushcraft is what bushcraft does. Most any knife would work well for simple wood carving tasks. It is amusing that some people feel they need a specialized blade for such a simple task. An exacto knife works even better than the venerable mora, and is even cheaper! Carving spoons??? please... :barf: Such things do not interest me. I carve animals.... and eat them. Infi helps...

I'm much more interested in a knife that can clean 3 or more whitetail without sharpening the edge. The Busse heat treatment on INFI or SR101 mashes the hell out of my button in that regard! It's very impressive to any outdoorsman worldwide. Or the capability to baton firewood and have a knife maintain a shaving edge. Or maybe the simple fileting of a catfish. And still.... have the ability to cut simple notches in wood. If you think batoning is abuse, you have never owned a Busse.

My belief is that people that buy Busse are folks that believe they don't want to end up ANYWHERE with a knife that "might" work. Busse men feel that failure is NOT an option. I only invest in the best. The OP suggested the Active Duty and I can only offer my sincere applause for his choice. It is a jack-of-all-trades and will serve him well in any venture (except for chopping... ).

I hope I do not appear overly pugnacious ... but the hippies in W&S have irritated me for years!



That's all...

KDS





.

 

[PeterPHWS]

I have to say that I am pretty much in kdstrick's thought's regarding "Bushcraft" ... nomen culture wise there is a growing tendancy in threads I have seen where people want to seperate and define words like "Bushcraft" or "Outdoorsman" or "Survivalist" or whatever other words you might want to chose like "Hunter/Gatherer" etc ... the main point being that some people want to be seen as specifically one thing and not another ... and then want that "definition" of what they are or want to be ... to dictate a specific type of knife as being their "ideal" ...

So on the basis of generalising a little ... some of the "camps" are created by these definitions ... and some "camps" are created by simple "financial" barriers or values as to what can be or should be spent on a knife ... and seemingly ... some of the "camps" are created by whichever T.V. character is the most impressive to you ...

For me a lot of this strikes me as "bull$hit" ... and what I would prefer is a simple acknowlegement over what we share in common ... things like

- We all have a love for the "outdoors" ...

- We all like the ability to feel "free" to do what we want ...

- We ought to be tolerant enough to agree that if you don't rock my boat ... I won't rock yours ...

As far as knives go therefore all they really need to be ... is sharp ... because the more you read round other people's areas of endevour or "expertise" ... the more you realise what can be accomplished with "so little" ...

A good example are "mountain marathon" forum's ... I like going on these to find out what types of gear and "set up" people are using on a "minimalist" basis to go out into the mountains and enjoy them ... and come back in one piece ...

Read some of their information and you realise just how "hung up" you can get about "weight" ... obsessive is pretty much the word that springs to my mind but it is all good stuff and well worth looking at ... these guys often decry carrying any knife and say that a single sided razor blade is all they need ! Rightly pointing out though that from their perspective they hardly have a need to "cut stuff" ...

Above the tree line there is no "wood" ... so they are getting by on what they bring with them ... stoves instead of fires ... dried food or boil in the bag "hot bags" instead of fresh game ... the most they need to cut are "packets" or "para cord" or maybe "loose threads" off their gear ... Yet make no mistake ... these guys are going into some serious terrain ... and if you want to learn a little on what is the lightest of "set ups" for cooking /sleeping / tenting ... these are great places to learn it from.

I got a tip from one guy who added to his list "a golf ball" ... people were going nuts asking why he was carrying this as he was "off-line" a while after posting it ... turns out he said that rather than carry "camp flip flops" for tired feet ... he would just use his mountain shoes after massaging the base of his foot by standing on the golf ball and rolling this round the base of his foot ... he said it avoided cramps and was as good as an expensive "foot massage" ...

Now ... having walked/ran in the hills till my feet have reached that "solid painfull lump" stage a few times myself I thought I would give it a go ... absolutely brilliant idea ... when your back aches ... your legs ache ... and doing the bending needed to rub your feet seems like "too much" ... this tip is a great one for taking some of the cramp out of your foot. He was also they guy who put me on to using a pencil sharpener for wood shavings ... being a rebel he carried a fire steel AND a SAK !!

For me a lot of my gear now comes from these boy's lists ... walking in light weight comfortable but "expensive" clothing ... and mixing in some time in the valleys in the woods with some "bushcraft" or whatever ... is a nice "hy-brid" option for me ...

If I went to a "bush-meet" I would look like I had jogged there ... but would still have "a tarp" or a "hammock" but more likely an ulta light weight therm a rest and expensive ultra light sleeping bag and gore tex bivi bag. No "wool blankets" for me ... or Ventile Poncho's ... or Ti-pi's ... nor would I be carrying an Axe ...

But I might well suprise them with my Basic 9 and what I can do with it to knock up a fire and do some cooking ... ofcourse ... all with expensive titanium or aluminium cooking gear and sporks ... no curved spoon making knives in my kit ... and even though I own one ... like as not a "Woodlore" either if I am travelling really light ... my Basic 9 can do all my Woodlore can do ... and it can "chop" ... and it helps with the cooking ...

 

[jerzy]

i'm copping a squat at peterphws and kdstrick's campfire.... still dig my axe though...
};->

 

[demoteamone]

i'm copping a squat at peterphws and kdstrick's campfire.... still dig my axe though...
};->

If you use an ax in the same way as you write...I have my doubts. I thought you will take with ya, your crappy Bravo1?

 

[jerzy]

If you use an ax in the same way as you write...I have my doubts. I thought you will take with ya, your crappy Bravo1?

hehe, and what's bothering you about the way i "write" [sic!]... i thought i was "typing" but screw the semantics....
};->

i'll take my axe or bravo 1 anyday over a useless dagger you swoon so much over.... you just like to rile folks on forums dontcha dude?.... i've only registered on bf very recently but already noticed a few of your authocratic posts on some threads having checked out several subforums... i ain't gonna bite though so keep looking for another cretin who'll fall for a taunt hehe..... whaddya like 18 with an overabundance of testosterone?.... whatever dude, i still have yet to get a busse so the bravo is currently a fave all around blade of mine.... as far as using one, well it's much more for others benefit and to use while i have it with me, if you'd read the thread more attentively rather than post a knee jerk reaction to something that you apparently read out of context, you'd notice that i'm severely disabled therefore no longer able to utilize a blade well.... i've stipulated that point here in my second post....

i like my crappy bravo.... i'll probably like my busse more.... what's your point?....

 

[jerzy]

If you use an ax in the same way as you write...I have my doubts. I thought you will take with ya, your crappy Bravo1?

incidentally, your post on bark river 3v steel elsewhere on this forum is a contradiction in terms within itself :

It is easy to get too focused on one area and leave sight of a few issues such as :

1) They use A2 and 3V, in general two steels which are far more suitable than some of the crazy steels being used in similar knives. Yes you could argue that their could be more optimal choices, but it is also obvious that compared to D2 and things like T15, etc. Bark River is within as close as optimal as you can get without starting to really split hairs and interject a lot of personal opinion and preferences. For example I would generally go with S series over 3V as the higher wear would not be of much use for me and all it has is a lower grindability. But if you let your knives go really dull before sharpening, or you use power equipment to sharpen, or you pay people to sharpen then 3V is likely a better choice, or at least the decision is not so obvious.

2) Bark River came into a tactical world of low sabre-grinds, heavy edges, etc. and produced very thin ground knives. Now yes there is a massive amount of hype and information on the "convex" influence, but just pick up a Bravo vs Steel Eagle and do some cutting - there is a real difference there and you have to appreciate that. Do they occasionally have issues with over grinding, etc. yes, but if they ran TOP's geometry you would never be able to tell anyway.

3) They over a wide range of handle options out of some very high end woods with extremely nice finishes.

4) They have a very active forum which has full company support and active participation. Again you can argue it is moderated to the point Hitler would feel at home, but again there are lots of forums where you ask questions and all you hear is an echo, and there are some makers/manufacturers who have almost no way to contact them to get any information. Would it be nice if it was ran like Spyderco's form and Mike Stewart took Sal Glesser's approach (who defines gentleman), sure but as again, lots of people would pale if compared to Glesser.

5) As much as Mike is made out to be near to the anti-christ at times, he isn't the worst guy on the block in any respect, he doesn't hold a candle to Kevin McClung for example and compared to him Mike is a straight-shooter. If that sounds dramatic then read this and compare that to anything you have heard Stewart say about steels, grinds, etc. :




6) Bark River, while not as bad as before, it shows without doubt that the companies 3V HT and Grind is a common failure.:thumbup:

so, you think that brkt's steel types are quite good and better than most.... but it's a failure....

and....:

The all Idea of snobbism is that make ppl feel good, the idea of that type of steel can take more abuse than others its good....but not necessarily responds the need forse, just responds the feeling, good...Possession !

Nice
Living by the rules in japan it's hard already, to do any Japanese thinking way 当たり前 planning to starting a family..is even more hard
me too

I' planning to get one of those new tanto lite from cold steel, I wonder if anyone own and use them, also how Krupp 4116 stainless steel does behave?!

Thanks

He suffers from acute depression megalomania, which led articular & manipulate & fake your on persona from the reviews & testing video that he produce,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
My finger is turning green too!
Thats my opinion, like it or not,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

dude....really???.... you're gonna get on my case about "writing" yet you can't formulate a single correct sentence in a single sentence post??... it's all bloody gibberish hehe.... not to mention a blatant attempt to hijack a post here without contributing to it whatsoever..... ok, i'm done with ya... sorry everyone else, back to the subject at hand again please....
};->

 

[demoteamone]

you'd notice that i'm severely disabled therefore no longer able to utilize a blade well....

Hehehe......


I wonder if you're severely disabled? Body or Mind?


Hehehehe...........

 

[InquisitorLord]

I always thought bushcraft was either one of them little trees that look like animals or the skill used when tying to make your wife REALLY happy...
It must take a long time to make a giraffe with a tiny thin little knife.
My wife won't let me near her junk with a knife, the closest thing would be one of those lady bics...

 

[roninelh]

Some philosophy is involved with bushcraft, and simplicity is at the heart of it. Bushcrafters will not argue that a mora is better than a busse, but as someone said above, most traits found in a $300 dollar busse are not needed. I prefer basic carbon steel and renewable resource handle materials. Bushcraft is a bit of a sport and is premeditated, it is also skill based and just like other sports, you dont start in the nfl. Most people start in pee-wee league (mora) and practicing skills somewhere you are pretty safe, then build up to 2 week solo outings. There is no way you have do things and no knife you have to carry, it's not like if you dont have a Swedish made fillet knife to clean fish you aren't actually fishing. As the philosophy of bushcraft goes, simplicity, freedom from modern devices and materials, and respecting nature, I don't really want to carry a black blade rubber handle cold steel knife that was designed as a weapon.( I am not putting cs and busse in the same class). My point is that many knives are capable of bushcraft tasks but don't fall in with some of the philosophy.

 

[Blues]

Gentlemen, personal attacks are not acceptable on these forums. Make your points without attacking your fellow members.
If you can't do that, don't complain about the consequences.

 

[PeterPHWS]

Hehehe......


I wonder if you're severely disabled? Body or Mind?


Hehehehe...........

This sort of posting is'nt welcome here ... :thumbdn:

We try and keep it a bit more "civil" than this ...

 

[knife hunter]

Gentlemen, personal attacks are not acceptable on these forums. Make your points without attacking your fellow members. If you can't do that, don't complain about the consequences.

Thank you sir.

Gentlemen, its Mothers Day weekend and you want to act this way?? I highly suggest you not cause there will be no warnings and the infractions will be severe!

 

[Barrabas]

Very informative thread since I don't know much about bushcraft. I'd like to understand better what basic features make a good bushcraft knife in your opinion. Are my following assumptions correct?

1. no choil (call me naive, but I googled pics for "bushcraft knife" and the first three pages show only choilless knives)
2. short blade compared to busse standards, maybe between 3 and 5 inches
3. thin stock, which possibly translates into "anorexic" in busse termonology
4. tempered more for edge retention than toughness
5. comparably long and comfy handle. I simply cannot imagine carving for a long time with a three-finger-knife.

Am I way off? And if not, wouldn't the CABS be the dedicated Busse bushcraft knife?

Al..there are bunches of opinions on what a Bushcraft knife is..it seems to me, the term "Bushcraft" implys what I will be "crafting" or "working" on while I am in the woods..potentially traps/shelter construction/hunting/fishing/cutting potatoes by the fire/whittling (my favorite is whittling), etc.. so what I do when I am in the woods defines what a bushcraft is for me..kind of like a question on the "Hunting rifle"..wow..broad term..that excites a lot of opinions on which would be the best/all a round..the term "Bushcraft knife" I think is much the same...you have to find what meets your needs in the field..and be prepared to always be disagreed with in a forum for what you choose.//concerning the CABS..have heard others mention they LOVE that knife for these applications..sounds like a great choice to consider :thumbup:.

I'm much more interested in a knife that can clean 3 or more whitetail without sharpening the edge.

Kd..agreed..a bushcrafter for me, has to accomplish my needs for hunting/fire prep/and camp chores..I might just be in a bubble, but don't think a Scandi is the defining factor in what can accomplish that..but again just IMO...have to say though that even though I love the woods..I REALLY love my bed..have no intention of making the woods my home more than short trips from time, to time..I like the ability of getting to a fridge

Some philosophy is involved with bushcraft, and simplicity is at the heart of it. Bushcrafters will not argue that a mora is better than a busse, but as someone said above, most traits found in a $300 dollar busse are not needed. I prefer basic carbon steel and renewable resource handle materials. Bushcraft is a bit of a sport and is premeditated,

Ronin..great points, and I think your perspective is what kind of draws a line in the sand on what an interpretation of bushcraft is vs those that actually coined the phrase, and seem to be the pillars of thought when considering it.. (Kohanski..hope I spelled that right..sorry if not, Mears, etc)..seems the real question comes down for each of us in finding what works best to meet our needs/skills etc.

there is a growing tendancy in threads I have seen where people want to seperate and define words like "Bushcraft" or "Outdoorsman" or "Survivalist" or whatever other words you might want to chose like "Hunter/Gatherer" etc ... the main point being that some people want to be seen as specifically one thing and not another ... and then want that "definition" of what they are or want to be ... to dictate a specific type of knife as being their "ideal" ...

Peter..dude..you just in one paragraph, nailed it..most of the time when I see the arguments flair, it is because of this..but what I love about W&S so much, is that there are so many there that have spent A LOT of time in the woods..they see points from all angles..and more or less see all the terms you mentioned above in the same light, and respectfully/patiently put up with a lot and keep it on track...an example..hollowdweller & pitdog..to name just a couple..spend a great deal of time outdoors.. I have YET to hear either of them demean, or cast judgement on someone's preference of tool to get accomplished what they need (or think they need) to do in the woods..they've been playing in the woods long enough to know that sooner or later..the "fad" names for what we do outside will change..so they help lead the aspiring "woodsmen" to use their heads..find the tool that best serves them..and leave the rock throwing to the keyboard jockies..I love W&S..have a great deal of respect for many there..but there are always those who just want to stand for something, even if they don't understand what that is, yet..and alienate themselves, and attempt to alienate others in the process...but then again we have that same contrast of personalities in every area of this forum, and in life in general.

 

[PeterPHWS]

I agree Barrabas ... the W&S forum is an enjoyable place to learn from ... or just have a read ... Pit going out with his dogs for one of their walks is one of my favourite :thumbup:

As for knives and which does what etc etc ... there is loads of fun to be had in testing out a new one ...

There is at least a weeks worth of fun running through a cross selection of choices

 

[Barrabas]

Peter, my good man..seeing your collection, makes your perspective even more compelling. Magnificent.. When you thit the woods, do you prefer a combo approach, and if so, do you have a team that you most prefer between the smaller utility and chopper?

Now we are getting into the fun stuff..talking about having a one tool minimalist approach is fun, but in a best case scenario..you just gotta Luvvv the combo!!

 

[PeterPHWS]

Taking an extended trip where a combo would be worth the weight ... I usually pack my Nuclear Zilla for camp and chopping chores ... a small PK for food ... and a smaller fixed blade for more detailed work with wood ...

I usually keep a seperate knife for food as tanin's and sap from live wood can give you a bad dose of the runs ...

The smaller knife for detailed work on wood can be any knife that is comfortable to use ... I like the handles on Woodlores ... so I tend to pick them ... but a flat grind or hollow grind or even sabre grind works just as well ... if I were mixing working with wood and processing game I would probably choose this Phil Wilson ...

My larger blades are usually all Busse's ... albeit I have a few Japanese and ethnic parang's I sometimes throw into the mix ... but the smaller the size ... the more other makes are represented.

For a single "do it all" blade ... I like my Basic 9 ... but I do try a few others to see how they do ...

I have tried and used "axes", folding saw's and Woodlores ... the standard "bushcraft" set up ... and they do work ...

but you have a fairly heavy rucksack using all these recommended tools ...