Busting my bevel!!

Discussion in 'Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers' started by Vincent Price, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. Vincent Price

    Vincent Price

    56
    Feb 28, 2020
    So this is what causes me to toss and turn in bed at night. Not politics, nor global pandemics, nor world peace. Usually my shoulders aching like a toothache, and $#&@? bevels that I cannot seem to improve upon. This is with my trusty 2x72 that bites me in the rear end with the smallest of inconsistencies in movement but saves days in the knifemaking process. My question is, and I know that I'm not the only one to struggle with this and if I am then I quit. But how is the best way to fix it without it looking like crap or trying to extend the bevel and then doing the same thing, or making it a full flat? Yea, I am a relatively new maker, 6 months under my belt. I have a ton of learning to do. Yes I know I will get better with time and practice. But there is no one relatively close to me in this art to learn from. Help a guy out. https://imgur.com/gallery/Jdu7Lm6 as you can see i was good and then the slightest incorrect angle on the belt and bloop. I could spend a couple hundred on a grinding jig, I've made two and they sucked but I'd rather not create something that I have to rely upon to work with.
     
  2. seanj

    seanj Gold Member Gold Member

    502
    Mar 1, 2010
    You could try the Bubble Jig. Fred Rowe is the inventor of this little device. He is a member on here. Yes it is a jig, but it will allow you to develop the necessary muscle memory to free hand. Fred is a great guy and if you have any questions about his jig he's always happy to help. Plus his jig is much less expensive than most others I've seen.

    I still use mine to at least get my bevels started. It's a great little device.
     
    Keith Nix and Randydb like this.
  3. noseoil

    noseoil

    379
    Apr 24, 2013
    I use a simple jig for grinding & it works very well. It doesn't have to be fancy to work. Just a solid rest & a known angle is all you really need. I run this one without the center flat stock in place, just one screw to hold the blade against the fence & I set the angle with a bevel gauge on my grinder. Simple & it works. I'm not good enough to free-hand my blades at this point, so it's training wheels for me still.

    [​IMG]
     
    Natlek likes this.
  4. Vincent Price

    Vincent Price

    56
    Feb 28, 2020
    Thanks guys. I may have to work with a jig until I get the feel of it I suppose. After you end up with something like this https://imgur.com/gallery/0oKPXI1 what can I do to even out the grind line and save the blade?
     
  5. robwil

    robwil

    57
    Aug 18, 2007
    I appears you are doing a hollow or semi hollow grind. That slip does not look all that bad. You should be able to take the flat on either side down enough to recover your grind line. that is what I have done when something like that occurs when I grind. how do you hold your blade as you grind? I have seen the blade held both with the cutting age up and the cutting edge down. It is my experience tbhat grinding with the cutting edge down makes it more likely to slip and wash out part of the grind line. I have the best success grinding with the cutting edge up as I find I can keep a better watch of the grind line that way and I am less inclined to wobble causing those problems. The other thing that has worked for me is to establish the center line for the cutting edge and then break the edge and grind a sharp angle to the cutting edge and blend the rest of the grinding in to it. I am able to keep the cutting edge centered that way. Hope this helps. I also kinda gently lock my elbow's into my sides. I am not a big fan of jigs, as it detracts from being hand made and gets closer to factory made... It looks lke it is coming along nicely overall.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
    Branson1369 likes this.
  6. Vincent Price

    Vincent Price

    56
    Feb 28, 2020
    Thanks, I was grinding with a flat platen actually with the edge up and the belt hung just over the edge of the platen depending on which side of the blade I was working. I began with a 60 grit belt and broke the cutting edge and ground most of the way to the top bevel then went to 120 and touched it up a bit.

    If I grind against the flat platen on the flat a bit you say it may help touch up the over bite? I've always been afraid to do it afterward and have tried to blend it in with hand sanding which never works totally.
     
  7. Backyard

    Backyard

    141
    Jul 19, 2019
    looks like you are not holding the blade flat against the belt/platen. kind of rocking it forward and backward and up and down ever so slightly. I've done it to. it always helps me to push on the blade with my fingers right at the center of the ground portion of the blade and belt and use the other hand to pull the handle and not use it to apply pressure to the belt. to raise the grind further up the blade, move the pressure slightly higher. start low and work your way up
     
  8. Vincent Price

    Vincent Price

    56
    Feb 28, 2020
    Thanks. I'll give it a try. Do you have any advice on how to fix the mess I've already created?
     
  9. Backyard

    Backyard

    141
    Jul 19, 2019
    Same technique but being even more careful. I normally start without any belt overhang then when almost finished I overhang the belt and carefully finish it off
     
  10. A.McPherson

    A.McPherson KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jan 27, 2012
    Just finish the grind, then use a strong magnet to hold the knife and grind the flats on the platen
     
  11. Ken H>

    Ken H>

    Dec 31, 2011
    To salvage that blade use a magnet to hold blade flat against the platen and thin the blade just a tad on both sides. That will clean it up nicely.
     
    Branson1369 likes this.
  12. N.W. Gean

    N.W. Gean KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    157
    Oct 10, 2018
    Despite my previous claims, I did go back to using a jig. I've been using a "tilt table" since March and it's vastly improved my bevels. There's a few options available if you search.

    There's no compromise in geometry at the belly & tip as the sled jigs have. I recommend it, but just like freehand or any other jigs, it's not for everyone.
     
  13. scott kozub

    scott kozub Basic Member Basic Member

    703
    Jan 1, 2018
    Hardened or annealed steel? Some steel like AEBL is grabby when soft and grinds cleaner when hard.

    Have you tried using a work rest with a push stick or you finger stationary while drawing the blade across the belt.

    I also like to have the blade moving across the belt as I approach the belt. That way if the angle is off slightly it won't carve a trench.

    Finally if you are running a high bevel on thin stock your margin of error is much less as the angle is smaller.
     
    Justin Schmidt likes this.
  14. Justin Schmidt

    Justin Schmidt Schmidt Forge

    Feb 18, 2016
    Heres a good video on using a push stick. It's how I grind my bevels. This video is by bob Ohlemann of ranger made knives. Once you get used to it its WAY easier than freehand grinding

     
  15. Ken H>

    Ken H>

    Dec 31, 2011
    That is a very good video - Travis of TW90 fame has a video I watched showing using the toolrest and a push stick that got me on the road to freehand grinding. The video by Rangermade is a really good video and I learned things from it. Thanks for posting.
     
    Justin Schmidt likes this.
  16. Justin Schmidt

    Justin Schmidt Schmidt Forge

    Feb 18, 2016
    Yeah bob has some really good videos.
     

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