Butcher's Steel Questions

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marcinek

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Jan 9, 2007
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Couple of questions....My butcher's steel is not giving me the results I'm looking for.

1. I've been using for years now. Can a butcher's steel "wear out"? I've read that the ridges on the steel are not necessary, so I'm thinking that the steel should, in theory, last forever.

2. What is the proper angle to use between the knife and steel? The same angle as when the knife is sharpened? (the secondary/edge bevel angle?)

Thanks in advance!
 
marcinek said:
Couple of questions....My butcher's steel is not giving me the results I'm looking for.

1. I've been using for years now. Can a butcher's steel "wear out"? I've read that the ridges on the steel are not necessary, so I'm thinking that the steel should, in theory, last forever.

2. What is the proper angle to use between the knife and steel? The same angle as when the knife is sharpened? (the secondary/edge bevel angle?)

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
IMO, unless your a butcher who uses a thin, softer, low carbide stainless steel, steeling is not necessary. Steeling only allows you to put off honing for awhile. A thin soft edge will roll as you hit bone or the cutting board. Steeling will straighten out the edge allowing you to cut a soft material longer between sharpening. Eventually that edge which has been flopping around will break off. Then it's time to sharpen. I don't see any benefit to smooth steeling with today's new stainless steels. Now ceramic rods are a different story. They abrade the steel so you're actually honing when you use them as steels.
 
...very interesting...Thanks, smegs!

So...skip the steel and put the kitchen knife to a ceramic rod based sharpening system (or stone) more often is your take?
 
marcinek said:
...very interesting...Thanks, smegs!

So...skip the steel and put the kitchen knife to a ceramic rod based sharpening system (or stone) more often is your take?
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Yeah, that's how I see it. You could use a round ceramic rod the same way you would use a steel. A ceramic rod or a system like the Spyderco Sharpmaker are quick touch up systems. Any rod or thin ceramic will concentrate the pressure on a small area of the edge, so light pressure is the way to go. Here's a link with some good info. http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=26036

My kitchen knives are all Japenese style and are Sandvic steel that are around 60 to 62 Rockwell hardness. I just don't see a smooth steel doing anything worthwhile to the edge. If I were cutting for a living (which I used to do) I would use a softer steel and use the smooth steel as long as I could between sharpenings. These were very thin blades. Stopping to sharpen takes longer and you lose money if you're working piece work. Home is different and I like the best edge I can get. That means an edge that crisp and new. Kitchen work is harder on an edge than just cutting the same material over and over again.
 
Thanks again smegs...great minds must think alike, because a Sharpmaker is in my immediate future.

The link looks info-packed, thanks for that also.

Lastly, and unrelatedly, visited Philly once...awesome town.
 
Can't say I agree with smegs...

A knife blade's edge is not actually smooth, but a series of microscopic serrations, or 'teeth' that tend to deflect off center with cutting (and hitting the cutting board). In order to realign these teeth the knife is run town the steel two or three times on each side, at approximately a 15-20 degree angle.

This action simply realigns the teeth. More than 2 or 3 swipes per side is not only unnecessary, but can be counter-productive.

This has nothing to do with a wire edge, with must be dealt with through sharpening (flopping a wire edge back and forth with a steel, then attempting to cut, is a frustrating task indeed!)

If a steel is not used, those teeth tend to first un-align , then are actually bent down or broken off, at which point the knife must be sharpened. Proper use of a steel actually extends the usable time between sharpening.

In a commercial kitchen one usually has a steel to the left of the cutting board, and is used with some frequency.

The steel should be smooth (those rough steels tend to play havoc on the 'teeth'), and yes, they only wear out when the handle does :)

A ceramic rod is a sharpener, though gentle at the task.

-Michael
 
Now I think I'm confused between "smooth" and "rough" as far as steels go.

My steel is a Henckel's, and has fine ridges running its length. (Its not a sharpener, its a steel...that I do know).

1) Do the fine ridges put it in the "smooth" or "rough" category?

2) Can those ridges be "worn down"? Its been so long since I got it, I don't remember if the ridges were more pronounced.

My kitchen knives are Henckel's and Chicago Cutlery, if that matters.
 
marcinek,

It sounds like you have a 'rough' steel, nice and worn (the more the better)...a smooth steel is either perfectly smooth or with a brushed finish. The smoother the steel, the better it will treat your knife!

Some steels, however, have grooves, like I've been using for about 20-odd years:

http://www.jbprince.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=637

It is grooved, but smooth. Don't really know what the grooves do, but it works great. I really like the oval steels as there is virtually zero chance of catching the tip of the blade on the return motion.

-Michael
 
I am not sure how hard steels are run, but in theory you could sand down a mildly grooved steel into a smooth steel.
 
Heres pretty much what I have, chef

H724.jpg


Is that rough, grooved, smooth, brushed? I don't know anymore!:confused:

Though it sounds like you are saying that, regardless of what it is, "worn down" would be a good thing.

Am I correct?
 
Indeed, that is a 'rough' steel. Still, better than no steel, and yes, better yet if well worn.

If you brush it hard against your cheek and it's not comfortable, it could be smoother :D And you're right Flyer, it could be sanded but that would be a tough row to hoe!

Many people use the 'rough' steels, but if ever in a meat processing plant one would notice the steels are as smooth as glass (those boys use their knives a lot!)

-Michael
 
Chefget said:
marcinek,

It sounds like you have a 'rough' steel, nice and worn (the more the better)...a smooth steel is either perfectly smooth or with a brushed finish. The smoother the steel, the better it will treat your knife!

Some steels, however, have grooves, like I've been using for about 20-odd years:

http://www.jbprince.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=637

It is grooved, but smooth. Don't really know what the grooves do, but it works great. I really like the oval steels as there is virtually zero chance of catching the tip of the blade on the return motion.


-Michael
Click to expand...

That's interesting Michael: I have one of those F. Dick MULTICUT Steels. I find it very interesting to use on big fixed blades. It's truly different than any other steel I've ever used. I also use a Smooth F. Dick POLIRON steel for most of my blades.

If you subscribe to the methods that the Razor Edge Sharpening folks go by they pretty much say that the only good steel is a smooth/polished version.

But that F. Dick MULTICUT actually does a little bit of abrading it seems. It also does a nice burnishing job as well. I did a thread here a while back on the F. Dick MULTICUT steel and it got very few responses unfortunately. Great thread :)
 
Chefget said:
Can't say I agree with smegs...
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I think we agree to a certain extent that the steel is used to realign the edge. :) It's been my experience that you can only steel an edge so many times till that edge weakens and chips out. In a professional setting I can see using a steel. The reason I used it wasn't only to delay honing but also to mitigate tearing and ragged cuts. In a home setting where a kitchen knife will most likely be just slicing or dicing, I don't think it's necessary. Even so, I think the ceramic rod is superior to steeling in that it realigns the edge just as a steel does and hones at the same time. In all, using a ceramic rod produces the same result with a stronger edge, IMO. If the Sharpmaker had been available when I was cutting for a living, it would have been my "go to" instead of the steel.
 
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