Butcher's steel removing metal?

SDDLUP said:
Now let me get this straight.....


Okay I'm an admitted "newbie" to the forum, but you're saying that a real steel has no grooves, and basically just straightens the "bent" cutting edge of a knife? I've never looked at a knife edge under a micrscope so to me it would be a surprise if some really brittle blade steel were actually bent.

Also, since a real steel could not remove metal, you can't actually sharpen with it at all, but just bend the cutting edge back into alignment?
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sort of. some people like a very finely ribbed steel over a completely smooth steel. If you use very very light strokes with a ceramic hone you will realine the steel and take a tiny amount off.

I wouldn't steel a knife after taking it out of the diskwasher as I find it's best to do it just before use.
 
>"I wouldn't steel a knife after taking it out of the diskwasher as I find it's best to do it just before use."

=====================================

In this instance, use the steel to smack the hell out of whoever put the knife
in the dishwasher! :D
 
I'm at work right now. We have 2 ribbes steels, and 1 smooth diamond steel. But for some reason we have ****** soft steel knives so I don't use them. Bring my own. So I'm assuming the smooth diamond will steel take off metal instead of smoothing the edge out?
 
Does anyone have any links to sites that show the proper way to use a steel? I think we've all seen people do it and have a general idea of how to do it, but some of us twisted freaks need more details. :)
 
Ed Schempp said:
I have a 1935 era F Dick ridged steel. ...... My dad purchased this piece new and used it as a butcher for many years.
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Ed, I also have my father's, with a beautiful brass handle, he too went into the trade in the 1930's. He usually used a longer, heavier and very finely grooved steel but he admired the quality of the F Dick and commented on it when he gave it to me 35 years ago. Until today I always thought it was "EDICK" but after looking closely I see it is "F.Dick", the period lines up right under the F.
To me it is a family treasure.

Koot
 
From my meat cutting days in high school and college:

--Meat cutters use a polished, sometimes chromed, steel. No grooves. It doesn't take any metal off. It is harder than the knife steel. It aligns the little microserrations that occur when you cut something -- in my case, when the cutting edge touched bone.

--A diamond coated rod that is shaped like a "steel" is not a steel. It is a sharpener! It is used like a steel but actually takes metal off. A large ceramic rod with a handle does the same thing -- takes metal off.
 
WadeF said:
Does anyone have any links to sites that show the proper way to use a steel? I think we've all seen people do it and have a general idea of how to do it, but some of us twisted freaks need more details. :)
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Here are some links with varied techniques:
http://www.californiawineandfood.com/food/knife-care.htm
http://www.cuisine.co.nz/index.cfm?pageID=4935&r=5
http://home.att.net/~jserdmann/KnifeSharpener.html
http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/sharpen/instruct.html
http://www.cheftalk.com/content/display.cfm?articleid=43&type=article

Howie
 
This is what I learnt on my fathers knee. Once upon a time professional meat cutters invented a way to keep their knives sharp while they worked. They used a smooth round rod made of hardened steel. It re aligned their blade edge and kept the blade cutting well. This item was called a 'steel' and the process 'steeling'.

Move forward a hundred years to the days of marketing when all any company cares about is profit. Some unknown manufacturer in Europe suddenly decided he could sell more steels if he could find a new market. Well the amateur steel was born.
It was , and still is, nothing more than a round metal file with a handle. It is an abomination as a sharpening tool and has no use anywhere near quality blades.

Sharpening is removal of metal.
Steeling is aligning the edge
Stropping is wire edge removal and polishing the edge.

Anyway that's what I was taught.
 
Now that makes sense - "realigning the micro serrations created when sharpening."

Would a steel work as well on a blade that has been stropped smooth?

I would still be interested to see the blade damage that a real steel corrects if anyone knows of a highly magnified photo they could post.

Thanks!
 
SDDLUP,
Here's an old pic I posted a few years back on the Busse forum. I used the file on a Leatherman tool, and then my grooved steel to push the deformed edge material back into place (this was after a full power chop went through what I was chopping, and into a large rock hidden under some leaves).
I know it's not exactly what you were looking for, as realigning the edge as it's being discussed here takes place on a much smaller scale, but it's the same thing-displaced metal being pushed back into place.
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WadeF said:
Does anyone have any links to sites that show the proper way to use a steel? I think we've all seen people do it and have a general idea of how to do it, but some of us twisted freaks need more details. :)
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Go to www.handamerican.com Not only do they make superior steels there is even a tutorial on the website. I have a half and half (which is what they mostly reccomend) that is half smooth and half grooved. The grooves are so light I have to hold it up to the light to tell the difference.

The steel is supposed to be harder than the blade being aligned. You want the edge to give, not the steel in order to bring it into alignment.

Beware! HandAmerican is all about superior hand sharpening tools and equipment and it is really easy to get carried away with their products. I have not been disapointed with anything that I got from them, all top notch.

Rob
 
The best steel I have come across is a burnishing rod from Lee Valley Tools, around $12-15 if I recall. It is oval, about 8" long, perfectly smooth and very hard (64 RC+). Lee Valley mail orders and you pay in the Canadian peso.
 
SDDLUP said:
so to me it would be a surprise if some really brittle blade steel were actually bent.
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Its all a matter of size. Try to bend a glass tube more than a fraction of a degree. It will break, if you take the same glass heat it up and pull it into a very thin tread, you can bend it by 180 degrees without breaking. The edge is very, very thin and can be bend even though it is hardened to close to 60 Rc. However, in my experience very highly hardened steels 64 Rc tend to chip. And indeed traditional japanese kitchen knives are not to be steeled. If not careful, the edge can chip by the impact on the steel alone (if you are not VERY careful).
 
Excellent information guys! Thanks for posting the photograph OwenM! I have never used a "real" steel so I guess I will want to get one. Heck for 12-15 Canadian you really can't go wrong. Thanks HoB for that clarification, I was wondering aboouot the hardness limit of being able to bend the stuff back into shape. Nothing I have is anywhere near 64Rc but will keep that in mind for future reference. I don't like to trade strength and durability for the upper end of harndess, so it really shouldn't be an issue for me.
 
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