Butt Caps.?

Yvsa

Yvsa

Joined
May 18, 1999
Messages
15,395

:
We have all talked about this subject.I would really like to see some heavier butt caps on the Kuhkuris,5/16" thick minimum.

As most of you know Uncle Bill has allowed me to repair the broken Sirupatis.I didn't think about it on the first one I gave my cuz or I would have done it on his.

As it is I now have Dave's Khukuri and it is nearing completeion.
I have the Aluminium Bronze my cuz gave me and I am going to do these last two I have here with the A/B and two Stainless Steel #8 screws.
I know how tough this stuff is and although it isn't Steel I do believe it is somewhat better than Brass.I think the Brass the Kamis use is a little tougher than what I am used to machineing.
It is more like what is called Naval Brass which is also _tough_ stuff!

The queston is...
What would the rest of you prefer if we could get this changed?......
Heavy Brass 5/16",Steel 5/16" to 3/8" thick,or leave them as they are? I think the flat brass that is being used now is around 1/16" thick.

I said in another post that I was thinking about doing my 18"AK with Steel.I am...going to wait untl the .. Gelbu Special I ordered gets here.If "S/He" turns into my favorite then I will recap it with Steel about 5/16" thck.I think that is about the ideal thickness.
The Steel can be polished just as the blades are and I think it would be very pretty And much more durable.

As a matter of fact I believe the "Ideal" "working" Kuhkuri would have Steel bosters and Steel butt caps.What's the initials called fo here? YMMV...?
smile.gif

Thanks for any input.

------------------


>>>>---¥vsa---->®
The civilized man sleeps behind locked doors in the city while the naked savage sleeps (with a knife) in a open hut in the jungle.

Himalayan Imports Website http://members.aol.com/himimp/index.html

 
Maybe they use brass because it is soft enough to absorb some shock if the knife falls on its butt,(pun intended),instead of splitting the handle.Maybe that is why the old ones are not flat,or solid plate,but hollow.We ought to think before we go changing things.
 
I wonder if you're right Ghostsix.

Change vs. tradition seems to be an ongoing and very broad question in the whole HI forum.

I think in Scotland they liked to use brass because among other things, it doesn't rust. I had a sgian dubh I picked up there (made by some guy in Edinburgh) that had a brass throated sheath that the blade's cup-style thin brass guard would entirely envelope.

Result was instant rainproof non stainless blade with no modern materials needed.

Also, you could manually adjust how tightly the knife fit the sheath by just squeezing the soft brass guard with your thumb and forefinger.

I was very disappointed the day I broke the blade off from the handle.
frown.gif


As far as khukuris go it is tougher to say. Perhaps they like brass because it is cheaper and softer and less prone to serious corrosion than steel. Perhaps thin hollow type buttcaps are just cheaper to make. I really could not say.

The only real experience I have was the time I took my first khukuri (WWII) to the horsies store to get some sort of appropriate hoof lubricant to avoid premature craking of the handle. Everything went fine until I got back home and tried to hold both khukuri and hoof lubricant in one hand whilst fumbling around for my keys with the other. I dropped the khukuri butt-first on the concrete sidewalk. Two little chips came off of the exposed back corner of the handle and the hollow brass buttcap was scratched and crushed in a little bit, but the damage was easily repairable.

I don't know if it would have been better or worse with a solid buttcap.

I still like the idea of a nice heavy buttcap for pounding. Time will tell if it is a good idea or not.

-Dave

------------------
"Smooth Bastard..."
 
It is important to consider how the addition of a buttcap of different mass will affect the balance of the knife. I think a solid butcap has merit, but some corresponding changes in the mass distribution of the blade may need to be made. If additional mass is added towards the tip of the blade to maintain the center of gravity in the same position it could be quite a chopper.
 
First I would say that 1/2 - 1OZ on the but cap of a knife, that weighs 1.25-1.50lbs is not an issue in the weight distribution of the piece.Second a series of 1/16" caps, up to a total of 3/16" that were riveted together would give you some added strength,
and the rivets could be patterned for a nice visual effect.This would not require the shop to have to source new materials.
 
I would like a flat butt-cap just because there is more surface area so as to make vibration loosening a thing of the past. I would not like to pound on the butt-cap of any wood/horn/bone handled khukuri for an extended period of time as the handle would obviously not handle the shock as well as the metal butt-cap.

-Cliff
 
Any field pounding that I`ve had to do could be done with the spine or the flat.It isn`t a framing hammer.
 
I agree, Ghost. For pounding on other things the blade works well. The times I have been tempted to pound on the butt have been when I was splitting wood, and wanted to drive the wedged knife deeper in a forward direction. Concern for my knife has stopped me from doing this, but I thought about it. I think even with the proposed modifications I would be reluctant to pound on the butt, for the reasons Cliff mentioned.

A Panna Butta with a buttcap might be able to handle the impacts. All in all I choose the stick tang for its shock absorbing qualities. I will find ways to accomplish my tasks without pounding on the butt.
 
:
Good input.Thanks guys.
Outside of pounding which after I read all the posts and agree because it .....could cause another problem I hadn't thought of and wasn't mentioned.Pounding excessively could possiblly cause the bolster to be pushed down over the blade.

I have to agree with Cliff's thoughts about the horn or wood being damaged from excesive pounding.I don't see any way around that problem......And there is no question the spine or flat of the blade being adequate for pounding.

I personaly think the brass is pretty,but yet if I could choose I would have steel bolsters and butt caps.
I feel that a 5/16" b'cap with a couple of screws or nails to help hold it on would be ideal.

I don't know how much work it would be to make the bosters where they
couldn't slide over the blade.That would be a question for Pala.

Uncle Bill has stated many times how
the working people's Kuhkuris are used.We know how tough they are,but I wonder sometimes _just_how they are used by the hard working man or woman in Nepal.
From what I understand and like Pala has said a khukuri is a khukuri is a khukuri.
The people that use these khukuris everyday haven't the interest we have in them.I imagine in Nepal that someone shows up with a new Khukuri it's "Lets go to work" and then it's in the dirt diggin taters or cuttin some wood for a new outhouse or whatever.If the Khukuri works good then it's a good Khukuri.If not the person takes it back to the Kami that made it and raises whatever passes for hell in Nepal.I would like to know about how rusty a using Khukuri gets and if it matters.We know that scabbards aren't always furnished.

We know that many there are made with the quick and dirty way of putting the handles on and these last 3 to 5 years under more torture than we would probably do in 10 lifetimes.

I think maybe the thing to do is ask Uncle and Pala and get thier input about pounding with the butt,what is used on the everyday working Khukuri and go from there.

We might be told like Howard has said,"Use a Panna Butta if you want to do that."
smile.gif


So Uncle.How about answering what you can and asking Pala about the rest.
I am glad to be one of the Crazy American People that loves the H.I. Khukuris!!!



------------------


>>>>---¥vsa---->®
The civilized man sleeps behind locked doors in the city while the naked savage sleeps (with a knife) in a open hut in the jungle.

Himalayan Imports Website http://members.aol.com/himimp/index.html

 
If you really want to use the buttcap to pound with and are concerned with damage to the handle then try putting a shock buffer between the handle and the cap. If you are going to replace the buttcap anyway then why not put a silicon rubber "gasket" between the handle and the cap? That would absorb most of the shock of pounding and preserve the handle material. I have a recoil buffer made of this material in a rifle and it works wonderfully.
HOWEVER, Ghost has a very valid point. These blades are what they are today because of thousands of years of developement and refinement. We mst think very carefully before "improving" on a design that has been forged thru the milleniums by people who know far more about making and using knives than we do.
I would like to hear Pala's perspective on this.

 
Pala answered the questions. He said that little care is given the local khukuris except for the edge. They are not concerned with rust. It is usually simply worn off through use. Pounding is always done with the flat of the blade. Many local khukuris have no buttcaps at all. The major requirement and concern is the knife do whatever job it might be commissioned to do.

Interesting note: A customer wanted to do some major work on the village model he had. When he removed the handle he discovered the knife had only a partial tang. What looked like a peened tang end was really a handmade nail the kami had driven in to hold the buttcap on! A quick and dirty handle that looked like a full length tang. The kami pulled a quick one on us! I had to laugh and sent the fellow a replacement at no cost.



------------------
Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
http://members.aol.com/himimp/index.html
 
:
Thank you Uncle Bill and Pala.
What it used on the local Khukuris for bolsters and butt caps when one is used?



------------------


>>>>---¥vsa---->®
The civilized man sleeps behind locked doors in the city while the naked savage sleeps (with a knife) in a open hut in the jungle.

Himalayan Imports Website http://members.aol.com/himimp/index.html

 
Pala said that most village models made for local use have steel bolsters. Village kamis making knives destined for shop 2 will try to use brass if they have it. We are getting a few with steel bolster probably because the kamis who made the khukuri had no brass available. Brass is dressier but Pala says steel is stronger -- and he's right.

Forgot this -- if you look at the khukuri Nara Bishwakarma made for the HI camera you will see it has a steel bolster -- no brass in the shop.

------------------
Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
http://members.aol.com/himimp/index.html


[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 14 September 1999).]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top