Butterfly Knives?

R

RJT

Joined
Mar 30, 1999
Messages
133

I am thinking about buying a Butterfly Knife soon.I have never messed with them much but I think it would be fun learning how to get good with one.I dont want anything fancy,just something I could practice with and of descent
quality.I would appreciate any
reccomendations as to what knives
I should checkout!

Thanks

RJT

[This message has been edited by RJT (edited 24 May 1999).]
 
With Benchmade's discontinuation, it's impossible to get a good production one today.

I have not seen a Dragon Forge one personally, but from other people's posts about them, they're not all that great.

I recommend Bear, but not with a lot of enthusiasm. Jaguar's are great, for a few weeks, then they break.

My advice is to look around and try to find a Benchmade 45. The last one I saw traded went for $175. You could have bought it a year ago for $90.

I'm afraid that you've discovered the butterfly at a bad time. These are sad times for butterfly lovers.

Chuck
 
Here's something I never understood: why is there so much legislation against butterfly knives? Are they really that much more deadly than a fixed blade? I just feel like i'm missing something.

Adam
 
There were some movies made with bad guys who used butterfly knives. It's the same reason switchblades were banned earlier. Hollywood hasn't chosen to use tactical folders as a symbol of villiany, so far, so they haven't been banned, so far.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
RJT,

Let me warn you first that if you want to learn the buttefly moves, you may want to tape the blade so you don't cut yourself. This type of knife manipulation isn't as easy as it looks in the movies.

Good butterflies aren't readily available. I'd suggest getting one of the cheap Chinese models. They aren't great for cutting or edge holding but they operate like a buttefly and they are very cheap. I'd be happy to send you one for $4 plus s&h. That way you can practice and learn and decide if you want to search the collector market for a Benchmade or the like. Strangely, butterflies are perfectly legal and popular in our state. I think our legislature is part time enough they don't have time to fool around with peripheral issues like they do in more populous states. Take care.

------------------
Fred
Knife Outlet
www.knifeoutlet.com

 
May I ask a question? I have seen and played with balisongs, and they a nice knives. But a Military or the Carnivour that I got open much more easily and I suspect that they are at least as strong, so I am asking why buy a balisong for anything other than collecting?

------------------
Walk in the Light,
Hugh
 
Fuller,

I agree a one-hand folder is as fast and as good as a Balisong.That has nothing to do with the fact that I would like to learn how to work a Balisong.I would rather have a great
One-hand folder than a Balisong anyday.I still think it would be fun
learning how to use a Balisong.Just
something different you know.To those
who have given me suggestions to checkout I appreciate it.
smile.gif


Thanks

RJT
 
RJT, let me suggest that you buy 2 butterfly knives.

One that is sharp and the other for practice. Dull the practice blade with a file or stone. When you use tape on a blade, sometimes it's too thick (getting in the way) and sometimes it throws off the balance b/c of the weight, especially when doing aerials and other fancy tricks. If the practice one is just dull, without tape, it is more "real" and you can transition to the sharp one more quickly.

Bernie
 
Comparing a tactical folder with a butterfly simply by virtue of opening speed ignores the most important features of bali song fighting. The butterfly offers a number of blocks, traps, and especially strikes with the knife's handles. It is these options that set the bali song apart as a truly exceptional martial arts weapon, while offering deployment speed comparable (no claim at all of superiority...) to the fastest opening tactical.

In selecting your butterfly, I find that the most important factor is the amount of play at the pivot pins in the handles. If these are too tight, the knife will tend to move slowly and stiffly through the movements. If they are too loose, there will be lateral play while the handles swing, and they may become difficult to control. Since the pivot will "break in" over time, you're better off starting with a stiff knife which, with proper lubrication and practice, should increase in speed as your ability to handle that speed increases.

Remember that this knife will be used with fast, jerky motions and subject to impact from handle strikes (and drops...), so durability should also be an important consideration. Look hard at the above mentioned pivot pins. They sustain massive amounts of force, and if they're not well made, sooner or later, they'll bend or snap.

A tip - until you're comfortable, don't let go of the handle with the latch piece - the edge on a single edged knife always will be faced away, so you won't lose your fingers in an accidental close (Don't worry, it will still hurt like hell, tough guy!). Don't go near a double edged butterfly until you're up to speed.
 
if your interested i've got a benchmade custom bali-song stainless steel 4" halfserrated weehalk blade its like new i carried it a couple of times and then put it in the safe .
asking $150.00 shipped.
have a #14 randell on the way and could use the cash.
I've got other knives to sell i well post them later.
gary
 
balisongs are very sensual. They encourage one to learn basic conceptual motiuons of Filipino Martial Arts. due to stupid people in our society Balisongs are supposed to somehow be trouble incarnate as if steel can act on its own...Cheap balisongs are just that..cheap. Grind the edges off and bang away till you feel comfortable with the flow of motion. Forget the "hold onto the latch side' There are two styles of Balisong: Batangas and manila.The latches are on opposite sides of each other. what is a safe handle on one will get your fingers cut off on the other. Learn your knife and learn to feel the conceptual motion so that banging the Balisong is done short of your fingers in the air..Don't get it? practice and you will.
Problems with a Balisong is why I designed the Escalator...its the Balisong of the millenium! I LOVE my custom Balisongs.. I love the concept of a knife that slams n jams without cutting...then "BAM" its open and slicing. Within the planes of motion lie actual cutting concepts that involve non-linear thinking to use.
Enjoy at home, BUT don't carry a balisong. A one handed opener is the way of today.
have a great day!
 
Is there a review of the Dragon Forge butterfly knives out there? Can someone post some feedback if they own/handeled one? How are they compared to the old Benchmades and cheapies that are currently on the market. Thanks in advance.

Bernie
 
Bram is right on. His Escalator is the modern replacement for, indeed the evolution of, the Bali-Song.

The key point to understand about a butterfly knife as a fighting weapon is that it's as useful closed as it is open. This is where a lot of modern folders fail. To use them as a weapon, you must open them, which takes time and requires at least some manipulation under extreme pressure, but it also requires you to jump immediately to an edged weapon. If an attacker throws a punch at you and you respond with an edged weapon, you have legally escalated the situation to deadly force. Your opponent may now, legally, draw his gun and shot you and he will be innocent by reason of self defense even though HE threw the first punch. On the other hand, there's a world of great responses with a closed Bali-Song that don't escalate to deadly force. Then, if the situation requires it, you can open the knife quickly.

A few modern folders have some if this. You can translate many closed Bali-Song techniques to Benchmade's AFCK with excellent results.

Rekat's Escalator (it's the perfect name for such an excellent knife), though, was designed with all of that and more in mind. My hat is off to Bram for this great design.

The big problem with a Bali-Song as a combat weapon is the complexity of opening it. Even simple techniques can be botched especially if you're nervious or have wet hands or are wearing gloves or maybe have had your hands slightly injured (scrapped up punching, for example). When you botch a butterfly opening, you often drop your weapon.

If I was to say one thing about the Escalator that is at all critical it would be that that I'd prefer it to have a thumb stud or Spyderco hole to more positivly open it. And yes, Bram, you have personally demonstrated to me several techniques for opening it, but I still don't always get it reliably.

As for butterfly knives today, I don't often carry one and then it's not really my weapon. You'll see my AFCK or my Escalator peaking up over my pocket. I just find butterfly knives very fun. I'm a habitual fidgetter and they're a great toy to fidget with.

As for the suggestions to tape or dull the blade, that's good for starting, but try to get over it as soon as you can because you will learn bad habits if you come to rely on it. Yes, if you start playing with butterflies, you are going to get cut. All I can tell you is: cuts do heal faster with Neosporin.

Chuck
 
Stupid, stupid, stupid. I am so stupid....
I had two of the good ones from Benchmade but traded them before I went to Korea for a 975 and now they don't make them anymore.
The 975 is easier to get than they are now, of course I had no idea BM would pull this.

Now I kick myself constantly.

------------------
God bless!

Romans 10:9-10

"Military" Fans Unite!!

 
Gollnick, I have just gotten back from the local knife store and then read your post. I went ahead and ordered an Axis after actually playing with one hands on for a few minutes. Within 30 seconds of handling, I was able to open the blade as fast as an auto using the lock release and inertia only. And that black T 4" blade appearing suddenly has got to count for some kind of serious intimidation factor. SWEET knife - after acutally holding one, I'm hooked.

David
 
David,

The BM Axis is a great knife. I have one of the first. But, I can't carry it. I've carried tip-down for to long. Under stress, I would probably draw it incorrectly.

IMHO, don't draw a knife with the intent to intimidate. You just license your opponent to go to deadly force. Ideally, your attacker should never see your blade, just feel it. So, it doesn't matter what the knife looks like.

The same is true of a Bali-Song. All of the colorful manipulations are for showing off for friends in private. On the street, there's no place for any of that. If you have to escalate to an edged weapon, do it seriously and with intent.

But, I do have to say the BM put a very nice looking blade in the Axis.

Chuck


[This message has been edited by Gollnick (edited 26 May 1999).]
 
Gollnick,

I totally agree with you.Ihave been carrying tip-down for so long that I would never Carry tip-up.I like the Axis alot And would carry it if it were tip-down.

RJT
 
Chuck,
Good point - I agree completely. The blade is gorgeous, mine will be plain edged ATS-34 when it gets here. I doubt that will detract much from it in looks, certainly not any in functionality. Just got back from the Phantom Menace. Great special effects and cinematography. 'I want a lightsaber' too.

Dave

[This message has been edited by volsfan (edited 27 May 1999).]
 
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