buying gold and silver?

[Trent Rock]

I have also discussed this with my financial adviser. He told me that they do not recommend buying gold or other precious metals as a hedge against inflation.

Trent concurs with the financial adviser dude:thumbup:
June CPI report= -.2% inflation
Gold= All time record highs


This thread needs to moved to The PA since The Gold Bugs have arrived and the talk is about Peter Schiff, The Coming Economic Armegeddon, The Coming Ub3rInflation and Argentinian inflation....imho
I suspect Ron Paul will be brought up next

 

[VulcansChrome]

This thread needs to moved to The PA since The Gold Bugs have arrived and the talk is about Peter Schiff, The Coming Economic Armegeddon, The Coming Ub3rInflation and Argentinian inflation....imho
I suspect Ron Paul will be brought up next

That's something that is exceptionally disrespectful to say considering I took a lot of time to try and tell people the truth about what I know concerning money and family safety in times of economic problems.

If this needs to be moved to some political discussion area fine but don't belittle people for their opinions. I smell major troll in your post.

 

[giant1]

If the SHTF, your gold will be worthless anyway. You can't eat it. I won't keep you warm. It's not a good weapon. It has no significant medical value. Food, shelter, warmth, weapons, medicine, these are the things that will have value if the SHTF.

If you want to stockpile wealth in preparation for a collapsed economy, stockpile ammunition and antibiotics. Those will have the highest value-per-cubic-foot.

I am afraid you have missed the whole point of why one would buy gold. It is not because the world is about to fall off a cliff and we are all going back to our caves to drag our women by the hair from hunting ground to hunting ground.

Giant1 has his opinion and I have mine. As I said, both are worth exactly what you paid for them.

Feel free to value your opinion any way you want but please leave mine out of it as I value it differently

Maybe in the short term. EMP tonight, gold will not do you much good tomorrow. But, everyone always jumps to SHTF. There are lots of other reasons to hold gold and silver that have nothing to do with SHTF and are stated in some of the previous posts.

If gold was worthless governments and central banks wouldn't bother holding any. Buy physical to the tune of 5-10% of your net worth and call it a day.

If all you are worried about is SHTF then stock guns, ammo, food and water and forget everything else.

Exactly right. There are plenty of sound and logical reasons why people should be getting into gold and silver at this point in time.

Both gold and silver make good bullet castings.

At the same time Uffda was losing money in silver, I was making money in silver and gold. I bought opposite the market. As prices were rising, I sat out the game, perhaps buying a few small purchases. I sold some when I saw the market at what I thought was max, then using that same money, rebought as the market dropped and everyone else was selling like Ufda. It does take a good deal of attention to the markets, not just weekly but several times a day to know when to buy and sell. I've never heard of having Eagles and Maples or Panda or Krugs reassayed every time they are sold. Same for some better known ingots like Englehard and perhaps Sunshine (years ago). Art bars? nah, not unless you can buy them heavily discounted (scrap metal prices) from a reputable dealer.

IMHO, the value of gold and silver do not generally rise and fall. The value of the dollar does. It hasn't been that long ago that $100 Canadian or Australian would be exchanged for $75 U.S. Right now, .90 cents Australian will buy you a U.S. dollar as will .95 cents Canadian.

This sounds like the difference between a good financial advisor and a bad one. Although I am yet to meet a financial advisor who is any good. Either way you obviously took the time to learn.

That's something that is exceptionally disrespectful to say considering I took a lot of time to try and tell people the truth about what I know concerning money and family safety in times of economic problems.

If this needs to be moved to some political discussion area fine but don't belittle people for their opinions. I smell major troll in your post.

Not every body will get what is happening, no point in getting upset, just ignore them

 

[UffDa]

Feel free to value your opinion any way you want but please leave mine out of it as I value it differently


This sounds like the difference between a good financial advisor and a bad one.

I don't doubt that you value your opinion, but is it safe to assume that others may not?

RE: Selling the silver at a lose. I never consulted my financial adviser on this. Also, sometimes circumstances dictate actions that you may not normally wish to make.

 

[giant1]

I don't doubt that you value your opinion, but is it safe to assume that others may not?

RE: Selling the silver at a lose. I never consulted my financial adviser on this. Also, sometimes circumstances dictate actions that you may not normally wish to make.

Geez mate, you took a bit of sly shot at my opinion so I responded in kind, we can escalate it but that just ends up being a silly situation so what about you stick to the facts rather than evaluating everyone's posts??

Regarding selling silver or gold at a loss, are you now saying you lost on it because of circumstances out of your control or are you saying that it is a bad investment?? I am seeing two lines of argument here.

 

[Codger_64]

He sold it regardless of the market value at that particular time because his circumstances required him to cash out. Like pawning your knife collection.

I bought out a couple of guys who were "dabbling" when they needed money and the dealers, naturally, would only give them a percentage of spot. I gave them a higher percentage of spot ans still came out sweet on the deal since normally, you pay a percent over spot to a dealer. The only way I know of to buy at spot is to buy HUGE amounts at a time. Likewise when selling, HUGE amounts. Essentially though, it is like gambling when counting cards is legal. You have to pay very close attention and know what you have invested to know your buy and sell points. By holding inventory as the price drops, and adding to that inventory all the way down, one "averages down" the investment in all of the inventory, including that bought in a higher market. And you don't sell it until the market (spot plus fees) is more than you have invested per ounce. Again, with attention, you can sometimes find a gold lining to the silver cloud. The first gold eagles I bought gained numismatic value that far outstripped their bullion value. I was able to trade two rolls for three rolls of a later issue date, same gold content. BUT... I never gambled with the grocery money.

 

[giant1]

He sold it regardless of the market value at that particular time because his circumstances required him to cash out. Like pawning your knife collection.

I bought out a couple of guys who were "dabbling" when they needed money and the dealers, naturally, would only give them a percentage of spot. I gave them a higher percentage of spot ans still came out sweet on the deal since normally, you pay a percent over spot to a dealer. The only way I know of to buy at spot is to buy HUGE amounts at a time. Likewise when selling, HUGE amounts. Essentially though, it is like gambling when counting cards is legal. You have to pay very close attention and know what you have invested to know your buy and sell points. By holding inventory as the price drops, and adding to that inventory all the way down, one "averages down" the investment in all of the inventory, including that bought in a higher market. And you don't sell it until the market (spot plus fees) is more than you have invested per ounce. Again, with attention, you can sometimes find a gold lining to the silver cloud. The first gold eagles I bought gained numismatic value that far outstripped their bullion value. I was able to trade two rolls for three rolls of a later issue date, same gold content. BUT... I never gambled with the grocery money.

It is a shame that he could not hang onto it because Silver is trading at $40 per ounce at the moment. Would have been an excellent investment!!

Just to clarify, I am not talking about trading in and out of gold. I am talking about buy and hold. There are certain times in the market cycle when you would not touch gold with a barge pole. When the economy is doing well and functioning correctly then there is no need to invest in an asset that does not pay a dividend.

BUT - In times of economic uncertainty as we have now, Gold makes sense as a HEDGE or INSURANCE. As somebody previously mentioned you would buy an amount that is maybe 5% or 10% of the total value of your assets.

The events that are making gold or silver a good investment at the moment are;
- Governments printing excessive amounts of new money to keep the economy going
- Political uncertainty / unrest
- Economies in trouble or failing for various reasons (in this case, most of them have been on a debt binge for the last 20 or 30 years and it is catching up)
- Business not making adequate profits
- High unemployment due to business not making adequate profits

There are other reason but I can't think of them now.......

Eventually things will turn and it will be time to sell up your holdings in the these metals, but that is a fair way down the track IMO.

 

[UffDa]

Geez mate, you took a bit of sly shot at my opinion so I responded in kind, we can escalate it but that just ends up being a silly situation so what about you stick to the facts rather than evaluating everyone's posts??

Regarding selling silver or gold at a loss, are you now saying you lost on it because of circumstances out of your control or are you saying that it is a bad investment?? I am seeing two lines of argument here.

Geez mate! Try to un-bunch your shorts. You seem to be taking my comments personally. I posted a variation of an old saying, "Free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it."

Read Codger-64s first sentence in post #26. He didn't seem to have any problem understanding why I sold for less then I paid.

How about a quick history lesson? In 1980, due to manipulation of the Hunt brothers, silver hit about $50 per ounce. It dropped rapidly after that. In the middle 80s, the gurus were predicting $15 silver by 1990. People were buying silver like crazy. It didn't happen and a lot of people were dumping silver at a lose. I hang onto mine as long as I could. When I needed cash for the move to AZ, I dumped it. It cost 50 cents a pound to move our stuff. Somehow, moving close to 50 pounds of silver didn't make a whole lot of sense at the time.

 

[giant1]

How about a quick history lesson? In 1980, due to manipulation of the Hunt brothers, silver hit about $50 per ounce. It dropped rapidly after that. In the middle 80s, the gurus were predicting $15 silver by 1990. People were buying silver like crazy. It didn't happen and a lot of people were dumping silver at a lose. I hang onto mine as long as I could. When I needed cash for the move to AZ, I dumped it. It cost 50 cents a pound to move our stuff. Somehow, moving close to 50 pounds of silver didn't make a whole lot of sense at the time.

I was in my early teens in the 80's and really did not pay much attention to this stuff.

So when you purchased the silver were you speculating that the price would go up or was there another reason behind it?
There is a big difference between speculating and the reasons that I have already stated in my previous posts.

 

[Codger_64]

Actually, the precious metal market playing I describe is good only for short term gains and only if played with the utmost attention. Long term, inflation eats into the supposed profits like a goat in the flower bed. Now ask me why I sold 100 shares of Walmart stocks in 1976 at $15 per share.

 

[Tostig]

My two cents , and I am assuming you are asking for the worst case scenario aka SHTF ? ( economy collapse, etc ) and I do not pretend to understand the Market at all , just saying what I know.

The only reason I ever 'invested' in precious metals was as a hedge in case the SHTF. There are a lot of other ideas about stocking up items for this scenario ( ammunition , food , spices , batteries- pretty much anything useful that you could not attain if the SHTF ) I believe a little gold or silver rounds out a well prepared SHTF wallet.
Personally I would stay away from gold simply because it's value is too high to be used on a barter basis for day to day needs/goods/services. You would be far better off with what is called 'junk silver' , which is older American silver coins that are only of silver content value. Dimes, quarters , halves and even dollars.
The problem is right now the price is too high. I was buying tubes of silver dimes on eBay ten years back for dirt cheap and no matter what anyone says silver is a very worthwhile investment , condsidering that I sold nearly 1/4 of my 'junk silver' stock and made out like a bandit from the local Coin Gallery. That money went to help pay bills and came very much so in handy.
The rest is sitting in my hiding place for the proverbial storm , if it happens.

The difference between investing in gold or silver versus stock is that gold and silver will always be worth something. ( as long as there is a human race around to want it ) , stocks , bonds etc.. well just look at what happened before the Great Depression hit and a lot of folks lost all their investments.
I finally got my best buddy to see the wisdom of investing a little in metals , among other items versus stock. With the way our economy is going..... who knows what is goin to happen.

Whats funny is that naysayers who never thought they would be buying metals as an investment are now doing just that. I also disagree with Gollnick about his way of investing in gold , that is assuming your reasoning for investment in the first place is economic collapse. The last people you want knowing you have precious metals are the people that print the money.

That's my thought.

Tostig

 

[STR]

Buy canned foods and freeze dried foods. They will be more valued than any metal outside of lead should the SHTF!
If you bought either gold or silver low you can make money at local jewelers and dealers by selling it. I've never lost money by owning the metal and taking physical possession of it. My dealers pay spot and here since the craze I've found that local jewelers and pawn shops will even pay over spot by a % just to get their hands on the stuff so the idea that you will lose anything now by dealing with physical metal doesn't seem to pan out to me if you are one that bought low and are selling. You can lose either way if you sell at the wrong time. Its all in how low you can get into it. Silver seems to be the one most I trust say to buy right now. Silver is expected to have higher % of growth compared to gold. Of course it won't be the same scale but its a better value according to some I've spoken with about it. Right now I think any of the metals are too late to get into. If you didn't buy before the craze I don't know how much you could make now but you could certainly lose a lot if it goes back down. History seems to show that indeed it will drop and if our own history here is any indicator its likely gold will be confiscated again by the government although I doubt in this depression that many will abide by it when and if it happens.
STR

 

[Trent Rock]

to try and tell people the truth about what I know concerning money and family safety in times of economic problems.

You get "the truth" from some internet guru named Mike Maloney??
Does Mr. Maloney know something other investors do not?

They had deflation in Japan
They had inflation in Argentina
So what?
Different macroeconomic conditions, different monetary policy, different political setting

It usually goes like this:
Guy posts a video and says "you all NEED to watch this"
It's some economic doomsday scenario video with doomsday music playing in background
And diagrams of fiat money, mushroom clouds, pictures of Heinrich Brüning, arrows, and graphs telling me how if we return to the gold standard everything will be peaches and cream
Then I go to guru dudes webpage and he wants 200 a month for his newsletter telling me when is the EXACT right time to buy gold
He claims he is the only one who "saw what was coming", therefore I should believe he speaks the truth
and only he knows how the money system is a giant house of cards and everyone else is a member of the sheep family....
Strewn about his Economic Armageddon doomsday web page are ads for gold and his next seminar
and then I find out the guy is a neurotoxologist
Not an economist or a billionaire investor

This is the truth I speak....

Fear mongering (or scaremongering) is the use of fear to influence the opinions and actions of others towards some specific end. The feared object or subject is sometimes exaggerated, and the pattern of fear mongering is usually one of repetition, in order to continuously reinforce the intended effects of this tactic, sometimes in the form of a vicious circle

 

[UffDa]

So, SkinnyJoe, how much gold are you going to buy? After 33 posts, what have you learned?

 

[giant1]

You get "the truth" from some internet guru named Mike Maloney??
Does Mr. Maloney know something other investors do not?

They had deflation in Japan
They had inflation in Argentina
So what?
Different macroeconomic conditions, different monetary policy, different political setting

It usually goes like this:
Guy posts a video and says "you all NEED to watch this"
It's some economic doomsday scenario video with doomsday music playing in background
And diagrams of fiat money, mushroom clouds, pictures of Heinrich Brüning, arrows, and graphs telling me how if we return to the gold standard everything will be peaches and cream
Then I go to guru dudes webpage and he wants 200 a month for his newsletter telling me when is the EXACT right time to buy gold
He claims he is the only one who "saw what was coming", therefore I should believe he speaks the truth
and only he knows how the money system is a giant house of cards and everyone else is a member of the sheep family....
Strewn about his Economic Armageddon doomsday web page are ads for gold and his next seminar
and then I find out the guy is a neurotoxologist
Not an economist or a billionaire investor

This is the truth I speak....

Fear mongering (or scaremongering) is the use of fear to influence the opinions and actions of others towards some specific end. The feared object or subject is sometimes exaggerated, and the pattern of fear mongering is usually one of repetition, in order to continuously reinforce the intended effects of this tactic, sometimes in the form of a vicious circle

You have chosen to point out a negative which definitely exists, BUT.........

There are con artists everywhere in every sphere of life and endeavours taken by humans, there always have been. Look at the crap a used car salesman will feed you in order to sell you a car!! Doesn't mean you go without a car, you just need to sort out the BS from what is real by educating yourself on the subject at hand.

 

[SkinnyJoe]

If the SHTF, your gold will be worthless anyway. You can't eat it. I won't keep you warm. It's not a good weapon. It has no significant medical value. Food, shelter, warmth, weapons, medicine, these are the things that will have value if the SHTF.

If you want to stockpile wealth in preparation for a collapsed economy, stockpile ammunition and antibiotics. Those will have the highest value-per-cubic-foot.

Good point. Basic gardening/farming skills would be good too. Hopefully we won't get to that point.

 

[SkinnyJoe]

So, SkinnyJoe, how much gold are you going to buy? After 33 posts, what have you learned?

Probably none, especially at current prices. If anything, silver and platinum have more uses. Buying Euros did cross my mind, but I would get screwed by the conversion rate most likely, and the day when the Euro is stable and we have hyperinflation here, that just doesn't seem likely. Usually what affects us affects the entire world. What I learned is that I probably need to stop listening to my friend who preaches demise of the dollar, a la Weimar Republic and whatnot. Come to think of it, he also believed in some 911 conspiracy BS, good guy, just paranoid.

 

[Codger_64]

You can still buy a few silver or gold eagles for not a lot of investment. Less than a carton of smokes or a good bottle of whisky. They are government assayed coins (Honest metal content) and not hard to sell at any point. And the value generally does not fall as fast as the dollar. Just dabble and watch the market until you feel comfortable. Silver closed at $39.90 today after a high of $40.49.

 

[UffDa]

Had to post this here. Had to.

 

[Bob W]

You say you're comfortable with 5%-10% being invested in gold and/or silver. But do you know what % you're already invested in precious metals?

Many mutual funds have a % in gold and silver, either directly by purchasing metal ETFs or similar, or indirectly by investing in mining companies. You could already have 5%-10% in gold and gold-related investments without realizing it. First Eagle Global is 5.7% in commodity gold, Blackrock Global is 1.65% in GLD shares, and Ivy Asset Strategy is 9.16% in bullion. Those numbers are from a single investment only; the total gold investment of each of these funds could be much higher.

I also see that Blackrock Global Allocation fund has recently sold 1,200,000 shares of GLD. Ivy and others are selling too. Do they think that gold is reaching an apex, or they just wanted to put the money into another asset class that has recently become more attractive?