byrd warranty

[suedeface]

Just a quick question...do the byrd line of knives have a lifetime guarantee like the main spyderco line? I'm interested in the meadowlark model. Has anyone had any experience with this particular knife? It looks like a great knife for the price, and if it had a good warranty ,that would probably seal the deal. soooo?

 

[darklight943]

I've got Meadowlarks G-10 and FRN. Both are great - shaving sharp out of the box and solid. I also have the Crow and Raven models - also excellent. I don't have any experience with the SS models, though.

 

[skcusloa]

They have a 1 year warranty from what I remember. If you go to spyderco.com and get the byrd catalog in .pdf it should fill you in.....

 

[Padawan]

My G10 Meadowlark is a great knife and a great value. Unfortunately, the Byrd warranty is only 1 year of coverage. I recently brought this issue up at the Spyderco website forums, since this is the only thing I find lacking with the Byrd line. The quality of the knives is high, so I doubt that the cost to Spyderco of extending the warranty to lifetime coverage would be all that great. It's also worth noting that there is another entry-level line produced by a different knife company, and that line features the same exact lifetime warranty as every other knife the company makes. Regardless of how inexpensive the Byrd knives are, and how easy it would be to replace one, it would be nice to see more a more thorough warranty, and I'm sure there are others who would agree.

 

[DaveH]

The price is so low that it's probably cheaper for the end user to buy another then to mess with shipping it back.

 

[Padawan]

I agree, the price for a replacement knife is quite low in this case. However, it's still around $25 shipped, whereas someone can ship a knife for repair for well under $5 in most cases. Again, we aren't talking about a tremendous amount of money either way, but a solid warranty also conveys to a potential buyer the confidence that a company has in the quality of its products. Spyderco has always demonstrated a strong belief in its products and service, so the relatively meager warranty on the Byrd line just seems a bit out of place.

 

[DaveH]

I agree that a solid warranty gives confidence. But a 1 year warranty is defacto lifetime unless the company asks for a dated sales receipt.

Further in a short amount of time, the user has ligitimately "used" up the knife, because after all it was inexpensive to begin with. Part of the warranty is included in the cost of the knife, since you're not paying for a lifetime warranty, I think it's not fair to ask that it be given.

Plus you didn't count the $ amount tied to the senders time and effort.

For example lets say I believe I'm worth $20 and hour and it takes me 1 hours to pack up the knife, wait in line and $5 to send. I then have to wait at best say two weeks for a replacement. Total cost is $25 + waiting.

Now instead I just decide to call up my favorute dealer and buy a new one for $25 and 3 days later it arrives. Total cost is $25 + less waiting AND I have two knives.

 

[Padawan]

I suppose it's a matter of perspective, and you do raise good points. However, the idea of a 1 year warranty still, in my opinion, gives the impression that the expected durability of the knife is not all that high, and it is essentially a "throw away" item. Everything else about the Byrds seems to indicate that they are solid, well-built pieces that could be expected to last far longer than most other knives in that price range. I just feel that a knife buyer who sees competing knives supported by a lifetime warranty might be slightly put-off by the inferior warranty of the Byrd line.

Also, the idea of placing value on the owner's time is a bit dubious. It would be hard to argue that the 20 minutes or so that it would take to package the knife and write out a label during a bit of free time one evening is a legitimate opportunity cost. Of course, everyone has a different schedule, and free time is harder to come by for some people, so this could potentially be a factor for some.

Again, the costs of these knives is so low that in either case, we aren't talking about a lot of money, and you're right that it would be simple to just order another. My contention with the warranty obviously doesn't stem purely from an economic standpoint, and it isn't a make or break issue for me. I'll continue to buy them because they're a good value and I like a number of the designs. An improved warranty would just be a nice additional feature - "icing on the cake", if you will. :thumbup:

 

[4 s ter]

An improved warranty would just be a nice additional feature - "icing on the cake", if you will. :thumbup:

And it would add some "icing" to the price also. Warranties aren't free, they're built into the price of any product...and the better the warranty the more it adds to the price. The balancing act that a company has to accomplish is keeping potential customers more turned on by the low price than are turned off by the less than ultimate warranty.

David

 

[Padawan]

I'm fully aware of the economics regarding warranties, which is why I previously alluded to the additional costs that might be incurred by the company. As I stated in an above post, if the knives are of sufficient quality (which they appear to be), one could reasonably assume that warranty costs past the one-year point would not be terribly high. Many warranty issues are also normally handled when the knife is first purchased and inspected, where any manufacturing defects are often clearly apparent. We can also consider that Spyderco is in the position of being able to spread any additional costs for this warranty across its entire model line, in which case the "per-knife" price increases would likely be nominal at best.

 

[DaveH]

e can also consider that Spyderco is in the position of being able to spread any additional costs for this warranty across its entire model line, i

I'm sorry but that idea is just insane. The point of a low cost knife is to be, wait for it, LOW COST! You not only want to increase the price of the knife you want to do it on the back of other knives.

 

[Vivi]

Well, Victorinox produces knives costing under 10$ and have a no-questions asked replacement warranty for them.

 

[Padawan]

I'm sorry but that idea is just insane. The point of a low cost knife is to be, wait for it, LOW COST! You not only want to increase the price of the knife you want to do it on the back of other knives.

Insane? That's a bit extreme. It would be naive and uninformed to assume that certain costs associated with the Byrd line are not or have not been covered (at least partially) by revenue generated by other Spyderco products, especially during the period when the line was initially being developed. These aren't separate companies we're discussing here. I'd also be surprised if, in the interest of having certain knives meet certain desired price points, profit margins weren't shifted here or there among various models within the company. There isn't anything revolutionary or unheard of about such tactics - it's business. The Byrd warranty would be no different. Nowhere did I make a statement advocating increasing the costs of the knives, and I think most people here are grossly overestimating the additional per-knife costs that a longer warranty period for the Byrd line would entail. All I stated was that it would be nice to see a more comprehensive warranty for the Byrd line, similar to what competitors offer, and more in keeping with the high-quality nature of these knives and those of the parent company. Would it add much to the cost of the knives or others within the company? Not likely. Could it potentially result in some additional sales or happier ELU's? It's certainly possible.

 

[Saint-Just]

If you want a excellent cheap knife, Spyderco offers the Byrd line: 1 year warranty.
If you want a more refined knife, with the confidence of a lifetime warranty, you get a Spyderco.
It has nothing to do with the quality of the Byrd knife (they are brilliant) and very little to do with the extra cost a lifetime warranty would bring: it is called MARKETING.

Most of you forum members have seen how keen Sal is to put us, the ELU, first and foremost. Please do not insult his intelligence: If a lifetime warranty for the Byrd made economic sense (there again, not from cost but repercution on Spydercos sales) we would have one.

 

[4 s ter]

It has nothing to do with the quality of the Byrd knife (they are brilliant) and very little to do with the extra cost a lifetime warranty would bring: it is called MARKETING.

If it was just "MARKETING" and had "very little to do with extra cost" then every knife would have a lifetime warranty. Obviously, a lifetime warranty has more marketing appeal than a 1 year warranty! The shorter warranty period is to keep costs down, not to "market" the Byrd line.

"TANSTAAFL - There ain't no such thing as a free lunch" Robert Heinlein (and others)

If you want to read what Sal has to say about warranties then check out post #22 in this thread on the Spyderco.com Forum:

http://66.113.178.251/forums/showthread.php?t=15355&page=2&highlight=strider

He talks about at length about marketing versus cost but some points he makes are worth highlighting in this thread.

The warrantee is paid for by the consumer. Period! One way or another.

Cost of raw materials + cost of labor + overhead + warrantee/repair/replacement + profit = price.

You can be sure that one way or another, the manufacturer is going to ensure that the customer pays for the warrantee for all product sold.

David

 

[Saint-Just]

Thank you for the link 4 s ter.
I do not believe there is a contradiction with my post.

The shorter warranty period is to keep costs down, not to "market" the Byrd line.

Byrd knives were created to appeal to another type of ELU, who were not prepared to pay for a Spyderco. The genius in the move is that Sal managed to get that ELU such a good product that it actually also appeals to people who usually spend at least 4 times more on their knives.
The 2 products must therefore be "coded" differently so that spyders can thrive.
Round hole is one such code, but nowhere can you see that spyderco G10 is different from Byrd G10. Yet the cost to Spyderco is different.
Having a lifetime warranty on Spydercos and a one year on the others is also a code. It allows for a cheaper Byrd (we are probably talking less that $2, hence my first post with "very little to do", marginally would have been a better word but English is not mother tongue) and shines a more prestigious light on Spydercos.
Making it a marketing tool.

But it DOES NOT mean it isn't a proper warranty. Quite opposite.

And I am convinced that if a Byrd knife was to fail after one year due to a manufacturing defect, Spyderco would use its discretion to replace it.

But as Sal said in your link, Spyderco users do not abuse their knives, Byrd users may because of the price tag.

 

[4 s ter]

Having a lifetime warranty on Spydercos and a one year on the others is also a code. It allows for a cheaper Byrd (we are probably talking less that $2, hence my first post with "very little to do", marginally would have been a better word but English is not mother tongue) and shines a more prestigious light on Spydercos.
Making it a marketing tool.

So you're suggesting that the shorter warranty period for the Byrd line is a tool to market the Spyderco line? I guess it's possible, but then it's a marketing tool which promotes the companies one product line (Spyderco) at the expense of another of the companies product lines (Byrd). That seems like a "no-net-gain" approach.

 

[Saint-Just]

Not promote at the expense, 4 s ter. Help differentiate. Remember that we are talking about (allegedely) 2 different groups of ELU.
I do not know whether my explanation was the actual thinking behind the warranty package. It is just how I read it from a marketing point.
But of course, hindsight is a beautiful thing

 

[suedeface]

Well, good news, I decided to go ahead and just buy myself one. I don't tend to abuse my knives so I guess the warranty should be fine. As soon as I get it I'll post a mini first impressions review on it. BTW I bought the comboedge version of it because I wanted a bit more cutting power.

 

[Prcek]

What if in my country is basic warranty 2 years (defined by law)? Will I get with my Byrd only 1 year warranty? I think it is not possible in my country, because it will be in conflict with the law. What do you think about it?