cable demascus disaster

D

dozuki

Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
77
I tried to make some cable demascus and it was not pretty. I finally managed to get something that looks like what i have seen on some of the tutorials. Now it's black and grimy and just doesn't sound solid. Does cable damascus have that ring that solid steel has? Or do I need to keep pounding on it to solidify it. All help is welcome.

Thanks Paul.

p.s if i can find my camera i will try to post a picture.
 
Paul,

Cable damascus forst needs to be taken apart and cleaned. If it has a fiber core, remove it.

Bring it up to welding temp, fluxing along the way, and twist it tight. Repeat one time.

After it's been twisted tight twice, bring it back up to wemding heat and gently forge it into a square. If you hit it too hard to start with it will delam. After you forge it square.

Once forged square, turn it 45 degrees and square it again. You're making an octogon but getting all the corners welded.

After it has been squared twice, then go ahead and start forging it out into a billet.

Cable can be really frustrating, so just go slow and easy. And always make sure you soal it long enough for it to weld clear through. You have to fill the voids.

If it doesn't sound solid, it isn't yet. As you work it you will feel it getting harder as it solidifies and the voids are forged out.

Gene
 
What Gene said. I don't always take it apart, but if it's got something in the core, waxed paper, plastic, fiber, ex., it's got to be removed or it can and will cause flaws. Normaly I soak for a couple days in mineral spirits to get all the tar out I can, then burn the rest out. Just remember to soak at a higher heat and for longer than you would regular damascus, and to flux the snot out of it, then take it out and flux it again. Anhydrous borax works better than regular mule team, but I've gotten good welds with regular 20 mule team borax. It's kinda like a mosiac where you need about 60%+ reduction also. Also forge to shape at welding heat, then do multiple lower heats to reduce grain size.
 
I just had to jump in on this one and put in my two cents worth. I believe there is a BIG misconception out there concerning cable (wire damascus). Many believe they should start with it because its easier than laminated steel.... not so. It far easier to be successful with laminated/layered damascus than it is with cable. Think about it, with cable you have a bundle of round wires, all of which your trying to weld to each other. Since each wire is round, they want to slide/slip past and over each other rather than weld together. Because of the configuration of the individual wires (layers) specific forging methodology is required to make it work. More times than not you wind up with voids, inclusions, and cold shuts. Not only is this due to the configuration, but if your trying to weld used cable, you've got all the crude, grease, oil, and gunk hindering your efforts. To top it all off, most are never sure of exactly what type of steel is in the cable their using, so now theres another variable to overcome.

Compare that to welding straight laminates of two know steel types. Each layer has a flat mating surface, which doesn't try to slide past its mate, its not that difficult to learn to gently hammer the billet at the start, and increase the power of your blows as it welds, and you finally, you don't have all the gunk hindering your efforts.

In the past we have looked upon cable as an easy and cheap way to make a type of "Damascus", which was my mindset for a long time. After realizing all the failures associated with cable, and all the problems it presents, especially to less experienced forgers, I try to steer folks away from beginning with cable, and recommend they start with laminates. The chances for some initial success are much greater.
 
I would agree with Mr Caffrey. Cabl can be very hard to make damascus from.
to make layers you just ned to fold it once and get it to stick and repeat.

I have had most success with cable when I have a secon pair of hands.
We cook it flux it cook it some more. The idea is to burn out any non ferous metals that have been put on as coatings for the individual strands. Also the grease and crud they have already spoken of. My metod is basically the same.
I did not invent it it was shownto me. Start by getting the cable up to welding heat clamp one end in a vise and ring it tight like trying to ring water out ofa shirt you have just washed.. To do this we have welded a bar out the endo of a set of what we call stilsons ( i have no idea of the correct spelling) basicall pipe wrenches. You may need to work the cable a few times to get it as tight as you can without tearing it in 2. You will know how far that is after the first time you do it. I then hammer the main bundles of wires around the cable you should feel it go hard at the tip then work back you can feit going hard as you go. To help with getting the tip started we use a set of tongs That clamp to the diamiter of just les than the cable
Reing that around to get it started. Only work the cable in small sections if you have to. It must stay in the welding heat while you are consolidating or your just waisting your time. Remember it is not required to have supper heavy blows to weld just the correct heat and light blowes will do the trick. Hitting harder when it is cold will delaminate what you have aready done.

As I said it is what the others have said but sometimes said a slightly different way clicks for some and not others. I am not saying my way is beter just that it works for me. Next time I may try te other way just for the experiment.

I replied to this thread before I saw the one further down the list that looks like a very good set up an description.
 
Thanks for the pointers. It sounds like I am not getting it hot enough and I may be hitting it to hard. It sounds like the only thing I am doing right is fluxing the snot out of it. One good thing is I bought my cable from ellis custom forges. So at least I know what kind of cable it is I'm using. Again thanks for the help. If you had to suggest one which is the best video for making cable damascus.

Paul
 
I have had pretty good success with cable damascus using all of the stated techniques but i found most of my failures occuredwhen 1. i didnt warm up my anvil 2. not welding the ends of the cable 3.not twisting the cable while its hot to tighten it up.
 
To assist in keeping your cable at welding heat for as long as possible, try making a "hot plate". This is a piece of mild steel about 1/2" thick that is about 6" long and as wide as your anvil. Weld a piece of 1/2" thick mild steel to each side that will hang down the sides of your anvil about 1"-2". It will be shaped like a piece of steel channel and the hanging down tabs that you welded onto the plate will keep it from walking on your anvil as you work the cable on it. You can weld a small square piece of keystock on the bottom of it also, that will go into the hardy hole and really keep it from moving around.

Put this 'hot plate' in your forge and bring it up to red heat, while also heating up your cable. If it gets up to welding heat don't worry too much, you only need to take it out early enough to drop down from welding heat, before bringing the cable out for 'welding/tapping. After you've gone through the welding heat/twisting in a vice steps with your cable and are ready to begin very gently welding/tapping the strands around the cable on your anvil....first pull out the mild steel "hot plate". Then pull your 'ready to weld' cable out and do your tapping/welding on the dull red hot plate. Since the plate is not nearly up to welding temperature the cable will not weld to it, but the cable will hold 'welding temperature' significantly longer when worked on the dull red hot plate! You get a lot more work done with each heat this way. You are also very much more likely to have successful welds and are less likely to hit it when it's too cold, with the resulting chance of delaminations.

Just thought I'd share this suggestion. It works for me.
 
If you read my post on how I make cable damascus you will see I twist the heck out of the cable while it is still in the forge. As a result of this the cable is about 95% welded before I take it out. When I take it to the anvil it just needs some love taps to make sure the very center is welded.
 
Thanks Ed. Who ever said "Love taps" had it right. The most useful techniques I have found, whether welding up cable or just refining WI is to use a light hammer so you are bringing hot-enough surfaces togther to weld with out mashing them apart. With cable there is a lot of airspace to get out first. When it starts to feel hard, respect it, and don't hammer it apart. Work it down slowly until you are sure it is solid.
 
twist up tight ina forge at welding heat...


use a v-block or swedge, your blows hit three side of the cable at the same time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top