Cal laws on neck knives, pocket knives?

C

canuck

Joined
Jan 21, 1999
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I've never given much thought to whether the neck knife or pocket knife I carry is street legal or not in Cal, because they are so obviously (to me) pocket knives no different from the swiss army knives folks carry. i.e. blades ~3", usually. However, it has occured to me that I should find out if I'm breaking the law on concealed carry, by carying something too long, or just concealed. Can anybody give me a quick synopsis of when a neck or pocket knife (or small straight knife carried in the pcket) would be illegal in Cal?

thanks,

Canuck
 
James Mattis and Jim March are much better sources for this; you may wish to check James Mattis' site, listed in the links section under Chai Knives, I believe.

The section of the Penal Code, 12020, was rewritten in 1997. This is the section which deals with legal and illegal knives.

Neck knives are illegal.

Any length fixed blade can be carried openly. Carried concealed it becomes a felony.

Any length folder can be carried concealed, so long as it was designed to be opened with the thumb. This is true even if the knife can be flipped open. If it is an old sloppy slip joint, and it can be easily flipped open, it is illegal.

Switch blades with a blade 2" or longer are illegal. James Mattis carries a Ca legal 1 7/8" auto.

Hope this helps, Walt
 
Now I am tempted to take that 12” Sable for a walk in Golden Gate Park. Take that, Sifu!

------------------
James Segura
San Francisco, CA


 
Jim, I've been carrying a Moran openly for the last few weeks.
smile.gif
 
Fixed blades and folders may be carried openly in California, except for knives over 4" in "public buildings" and knives over 3" carried openly in Los Angeles and some other places except for knives used in a lawful occupation or recreation or recognized religious practice.

All fixed blades with points are "dirks or daggers" which one may not carry concealed, regardless of length. A folder in its folded condition is not a "dirk or dagger" regardless of length, and so may be carried concealed in its folded condition.

The law is a "humble beast of burden."


------------------
- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Walt, when you say, "Neck knives are illegal," is that based on any specific reference to "neck knives" in the statutes? I've not seen such; as far as I can tell, a folder carried as a neck knife would be legal in any case, and a fixed blade neck knife would be legal if worn in plain view, but illegal if concealed (under the general provisions against concealed fixed blades).

(ObDisclaimer: "Dammit Jim, I'm a programmer, not a laywer!")

To add a tiny bit of direct experience, the main courthouse in San Diego has reasonably clear rules posted that indicate knives with locking blades and/or blades over 2" are not allowed. Had Jury Duty last year, and felt terribly ill-equipped with only my Micra along...

-- Carl
 
Expanding on previous comments:

What the law (PC12020) *really* says is that you "cannot conceal a readily available stabbing implement". That same section gives an *example* of what constitutes legal open carry (openly suspended from the waist is guaranteed cool) but that should NOT be read as the only possible open-carry method.

It IS being read that way by some cops and DAs. In the case of People vs. Terrence Terry (Richmond Calif. Superior Court, 1998), he had an openly-strapped-on-the-ankle double-edge dagger that they tried to nail him on a felony for...he got off because I wrote to his public defender explaining that just because waist carry was given as an example doesn't mean it's an absolute.

So: A 3" fixed-blade neck knife on a string OPENLY around your neck is cool, but you'd best go understand all of PC12020 and be ready to politely teach it to a cop.

Folders are regulated under PC653k. If it's got a thumbstud/hole/disk/whatever, it's cool. Switchblades of 2" or more are not, neither are Balisongs. There's been one attempted bust over a Lever-lock, I dunno whare that's going. The CUDA hasn't come up as an issue but since the thumbstud is directly connected to the blade it SHOULD be OK.

PC12020 *does* comment on folders. It says that anything cool under PC653k and is FOLDED isn't "readily available" and hence can be concealed.

There are no length limits anywhere in PC653k OR PC12020.

There ARE local ordinances against bigger knives. Berkeley has one, enforcement is pretty serious. So does SF, enforcement is spotty. In all cases, enforcement will go up as your attitude gets poopy #1, and as the knife gets bigger a distant second. Violations are INFRACTIONS.

What it means is, a SIFU might be illegal in the People's Republic of Berkeley but if you conceal it things don't get worse and your odds of a cop seeing it are borderline non-existant. Unless you have to use it god forbid, and then you're STILL not facing serious legal problems just from the carry. I don't carry $300+ fixed-blades in Berkeley, I sometimes do in SF. Your milage may vary.

Last detail: there are fixed blades that can at least theoretically escape the "stabbing implement" part and could therefore be concealed. If the blade is 2" or less, a decent case can be made in that direction although that's UNTESTED. A TRUE Sheepsfoot blade such as the Myerchin A500 can be explained away as a "crash rescue knife" that cannot stab due to the blunt tip, see also http://www.myerchin.com

ATTITUDE COUNTS. If you can calmly and politely explain what the law REALLY is, they're liable to figure you can do the same thing in front of a Judge or Jury.

My webpage has a link to the Calif. laws and codes looker-upper.

Jim March
Equal Rights for CCW Home Page http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw
 
James, Jim; thanks for your comments. Sorry I was too lazy to look up your URL's. Yep, I was considering neck knives to be concealed, but actually wasn't sure about open carry. Stringing something around my neck has never been too comfortable for me, and with the concerns about strangulation, a weak link is an absolute necessity.

Jim; were Mojave and Boron really nice places to stay? They seemed rather bleak and hot as I blasted through in my 911 with Jimmy Buffet playing on the stereo. heh heh heh. Walt
 
Thanks Guys. That helps a lot. I guess if I want to stay within the letter of the law, I'll have to give up carrying small fixed blades around my neck or in my pocket. A pity, because I can't relly carry them at work on my belt without people thinking I'm some type of weird person. That really reduces the interest I have in fixed blades, I guess.


Thanks again,

Canuck
 
That's about it. On work days I rely on megafolders plus a Multitool for utility, weekends and off days I strap up serious fixed-blades.

Walt's retired, he can pack anything.

Boron was interesting, actually. Especially what appeared to be a working magnetic perpetual motion engine...NOT as cool as K'nugen but a decent consolation prize.

Jim
 
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