California Brings a New Level of Ridiculousness!!! Swiss Army Knife Suspension

RUNIT said:
This is nothing new. I lived in LA for most of my life and 15 years ago when I was I high school my friends older brother got kicked out of school for having a keychain swiss army knife. This is before the madness of today. I understand that we on this forum see things from a more common sense point of view but this kid should not have brought the knife but the reaction of the school is over the top.
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:thumbup:
 
If the school has a "Zero Tolerance Policy" (as it is apparent they do, and "knives" are mentioned specifically) then there's nothing the administrators or teachers could really do and expect to keep their jobs. According to the article if a kid has a knife (among other things) at a school function, they are to be suspended for one day and recommended for expulsion.

I agree that they could have handled it better than demanding the father come take the kid for a day then bring him back, but the rest is policy, and you can't get around it it the litigious society we live in.
 
Friend of mine got damn near suspended when he came into a school dance in full Scottish regalia. Had his knife on him too. The principle was not really happy about it but allowed it, probably because he's also a Scotsman. The principle did ask him to leave and comeback, decent, when it was found out that my friend was adhering to one of the primary requirements while wearing a kilt. Still don't see how he thought it wasnt drafty.
 
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The school official who did this for sure does not have enough work to do if she has time to torment and ridicule a young kid for having a swiss army knife.

When I was a kid every boy had some kind of a pocket knife on him usually a boy scout knife or some such maybe a "camp king"

And getting the ok to have a pocket knife from your dad and/or being given one by him was a kind of a rite of passage for boys. Along with getting your first BB gun and then .22.

The leftists in our country are really fracked in the head. Must be hard to be a kid today.

Ca. is one of the worst places for such B.S. Its a pity for our country.

"Try avoiding asinine generalizations and maybe keep your politics in political arena. "

How about you keep your assinine comments and politics to yourself comrade?- my comment was mine yours is yours what are you some kind of a bolshivek?

Its a free country at least it used to be- so you think its a good idea to torment this kid and his family for a pocket knife?

You think its a good thing that the leftist school boards in California allow and encourage such B.S.?

Now that's assinine to the ninth power.
 
Bai Lang said:
The school official who did this for sure does not have enough work to do if she has time to torment and ridicule a young kid for having a swiss army knife.

When I was a kid every boy had some kind of a pocket knife on him usually a boy scout knife or some such maybe a "camp king"

And getting the ok to have a pocket knife from your dad and/or being given one by him was a kind of a rite of passage for boys. Along with getting your first BB gun and then .22.

The leftists in our country are really fracked in the head. Must be hard to be a kid today.

Ca. is one of the worst places for such B.S. Its a pity for our country.

"Try avoiding asinine generalizations and maybe keep your politics in political arena. "

How about you keep your assinine comments and politics to yourself comrade?- my comment was mine yours is yours what are you some kind of a bolshivek?

Its a free country at least it used to be- so you think its a good idea to torment this kid and his family for a pocket knife?

You think its a good thing that the leftist school boards in California allow and encourage such B.S.?

Now that's assinine to the ninth power.
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Angry much? Believe it or not there are actually worse places then California. Your comments about "leftists" are out of line, I personally have no problem with left handed people.

Oh and this is not the political arena so keep politics to yourself, just sayin'. :thumbup:
 
Sometimes I really wonder about my fellow knife enthusiasts. I can't help but shake my head when I see people say "When I was a kid I could carry a knife to school", or "When my Grandpappy was a kid back in Mayberry he could bring his coon-huntin' rifle to school". Well, we don't live in those times anymore. This isn't the 1940's, or 50's. It isn't even the 60's or 70's.

I wonder how many people in this thread have kids in public school? My girlfriend has two kids in public grade school. Ever go to school functions? I'm talking about ones where the kids are all there. Let me tell you, some of the kids attending public school these days are little psychopaths. I've seen the little monsters at play, I've seen how they react when they don't get their way or another child challenges them. I've seen gradeschoolers who clearly take pleasure in causing PHYSICAL HARM to other children.

There are a lot of kids these days with severe emotional and behavioral problems. There are kids with ZERO impulse control. There are kids who have never received ANY form of discipline from their parents. There are kids who are on "behavoir modification medication" and many who probably should be but they're not because their parents are too stupid, uncaring, or are just plain in denial "MY kid don't need to be on drugs. Ain't nuthin' wrong with MY kid". There are kids who come from violent homes, homes with drug and alchohol abuse, even kids whose parents are cooking meth in their kitchen. It ain't all "Leave it to Beaver" out there.

A little while back here in San Diego, a gradeschooler was playing with a friend out in font of his house. There was a dispute and this kid runs inside his house, grabs a kitchen knife, comes back out and STABS HIS FRIEND TO DEATH. Kids ain't all angels, not even gradeschoolers.

I don't want kids carrying knives at school. I want school faculty and administrators to take a hard stance on students carrying knives. I don't want to receive a phone call telling me that one of my girlfriends kids got stabbed by another student and is dead or clinging to life in the hospital.

I trust my girlfriends kids to be responsible with knives, and I'm sure that you trust your kids to act responsible with knives, but what about all the other kids? I like knives about as much as anybody, but I don't believe that anyone should be allowed to carry a knife anywhere at any time. I don't think that kids need knives in school.

And for those of you who think that California has crazy knife rules, tell you what, if you have kids in public school, come monday morning, send your kid to school with one of your folders clipped in their pocket and see what happens. I think you'll find out real fast that California isn't the only state with "crazy" knife rules.
 
Examine the assumptions behind the notion that we must be sure children do not have access to a cutting tool (Almost all the "zero tolerance" policies cover scissors as well as knives.) at school.

Consider reality(federal government statistics):

Nationally, since 1990 violent crime has steadily decreased over a long period of years, including violent crime using weapons. The decrease approaches a 50% reduction nationally.

Violence at schools has decrease significantly since 1993, when it peaked.

Well over 80% of violent crimes do not involve a weapon of any kind.

99% of fatalities to school-aged children do not happen at school, at a school event, or going to or coming from school.

Dewey Cornell, a clinical psychologist and education professor at the University of Virginia, says incidents like the one in Chardon, Ohio, and the infamous mass shootings at Columbine High School in Colorado and at Virginia Tech have reinforced a perception that schools are dangerous places.

"But that's just not true," says Cornell, who has been examining school violence for decades. "I know on the heels of any school shooting, there's the perception that violence is on the rise. It's not. In fact, there's been a very steady downward trend for the past 15 years.
. . .
One thing that hasn't worked so well, experts say, is the tough zero-tolerance policies aimed at punishing any infraction of school rules.

Cornell says those policies, which became popular in the 1990s to combat drugs, alcohol and violence in schools, have largely been counterproductive. He cites a study of nearly 1 million students in Texas published last year that linked zero tolerance to a surge in suspensions and to higher dropout rates, especially among minorities.

When it comes to zero-tolerance policies "there's simply no evidence that they work," says Brock, who is co-chairman of a crisis prevention program run by the National Association of School Psychologists.

Instead, these experts advocate a more flexible "threat assessment approach," which is designed to identify students who might be a risk to others and then intervene to change the behavior.

Schools that have adopted that approach have shown a marked decrease in suspensions and bullying infractions, Cornell says.

"The schools we've studied — and we characterize their school climate — that are strict in structure and discipline but also emphasize having supportive connections with young people — have far less violent crime, less bullying, higher test scores," he says. "They are simply superior places for your kids to go to school."

'Common Sense' Implementation

Zero-tolerance policies, which vary widely from state to state and school to school, can seem extreme. A New Jersey teenager, for example, was suspended for five days last year for having an over-the-counter allergy medication in school. And a kindergartner was barred from school for 10 days in 2000 for bringing a nail file to class. Both cases made national headlines.

But Kenneth Trump, a school security consultant with more than 25 years of experience in K-12 settings, says most schools implement their zero-tolerance policies with "good common sense."

"The media has skewed this issue and it's become politicized," he says. "For every case where a student is expelled from school for a questionable infraction, we can point to half a dozen cases where the schools didn't enforce the policy for serious offenses."

Trump attributes most of the "bad calls" by schools to new administrators who simply need more training.

Betsy Landers, president of the National PTA, is circumspect about zero-tolerance policies, saying the decisions need to be made on a local level.

"Each community approaches it very differently because of different situations," Landers says. "I think what's important is that parents are front and center in making those decisions."
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It's been posted several times that "zero-tolerance" policies are nothing new, and I believe that most here understand that. What shocked me about this story wasn't just the policy, but how far removed from common sense it is, at least in the way it was handled here. For whatever reason, litigation, school policy, personal politics and feelings, I believe it is just ridiculous. I don't care if it's the 40's, 50's, 90's or whatever, going this bananas over a Swiss Army Knife on a camping trip, just seems wacko. Again, I don't particularly care how it got to that point, the fact that it's there demonstrates how far out there some of these people are. For whatever reason, the kid was punished for apparently being the only one there that was actually prepared. Against the rules, yes, apparently. But so is breaking the speed limit on the way to the hospital for an emergency. And ask yourself, where will it end? And to be clear, I understand that if I was that principal, or whatever she was, I probably would have taken the pocketknife temporarily, also. But as for the rest of it, not a chance, even at risk of losing my job. And yes, I've risked losing different jobs over the years repeatedly to do what I believe is the right thing. Would do it again in a heartbeat.
 
Agreed that decisions should be made at a local level and on a case by case basis. This is a kid with no history of problems bringing a swiss army knife to a camping trip and being punished for it. There was no reason for the suspension. It could have been handled better. Zero-tolerance is feel-good BS. I went to an inner-city school and none of the zero-tolerance policy stuff stopped anything. Ever. Zero tolerance against drugs, yet people were dealing is the prime example.
 
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:cool: Like wow, man, what a bummer for the young boy going on a camping/nature trip to Marin Headlands - a beautiful area at the north end of the Golden Gate. One would hope that a school administrator would show a little bit sense of by keeping the knife until the end of the trip, then returning it to the parent.

I graduated from high school in Marin County, the then attended the University of California at Berkeley (Right On!!). California as a whole is not completely weird concerning knives and edged tools. My father, raised on a farm in Wisconsin, taught me to use knives and axes for camping. My nephew, who also attended high school in Marin, was a Boy Scout who practiced outdoor activities and learned shooting under supervision there.

Perhaps the poor schoolby should have worn lederhosen and claimed to be descended from William Tell. Given the California concern with anything ethnic, he could have claimed that the knife is part of his cultural heritage. :D
Faiaoga
 
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In CA, Swiss Army knives are the "assault" weapons of the bladed variety. No one "needs" more than one feature on their knife. :rolleyes:
 
Happened to me in Junior high. I had the same pocket knife on my belt loop and got suspended for it. This was not too long after columbine however, so such a stupid incident would never make the news. Plus my parents just rolled over and accepted it.

Got in trouble in high school as well for having an unsharpened decorative letter opener that was under 2.5 inches. As far as I understand, the california knife laws say that 2.6 inches or less is okay on school grounds? I'm not really too clear on the language.

Of course, city laws can be different, and they are very difficult to find.

We shouldn't be treated like criminals when we've done nothing violent or threatening.
 
killgar said:
Sometimes I really wonder about my fellow knife enthusiasts. I can't help but shake my head when I see people say "When I was a kid I could carry a knife to school", or "When my Grandpappy was a kid back in Mayberry he could bring his coon-huntin' rifle to school". Well, we don't live in those times anymore. This isn't the 1940's, or 50's. It isn't even the 60's or 70's.

I wonder how many people in this thread have kids in public school? My girlfriend has two kids in public grade school. Ever go to school functions? I'm talking about ones where the kids are all there. Let me tell you, some of the kids attending public school these days are little psychopaths. I've seen the little monsters at play, I've seen how they react when they don't get their way or another child challenges them. I've seen gradeschoolers who clearly take pleasure in causing PHYSICAL HARM to other children.

There are a lot of kids these days with severe emotional and behavioral problems. There are kids with ZERO impulse control. There are kids who have never received ANY form of discipline from their parents. There are kids who are on "behavoir modification medication" and many who probably should be but they're not because their parents are too stupid, uncaring, or are just plain in denial "MY kid don't need to be on drugs. Ain't nuthin' wrong with MY kid". There are kids who come from violent homes, homes with drug and alchohol abuse, even kids whose parents are cooking meth in their kitchen. It ain't all "Leave it to Beaver" out there.

A little while back here in San Diego, a gradeschooler was playing with a friend out in font of his house. There was a dispute and this kid runs inside his house, grabs a kitchen knife, comes back out and STABS HIS FRIEND TO DEATH. Kids ain't all angels, not even gradeschoolers.

I don't want kids carrying knives at school. I want school faculty and administrators to take a hard stance on students carrying knives. I don't want to receive a phone call telling me that one of my girlfriends kids got stabbed by another student and is dead or clinging to life in the hospital.

I trust my girlfriends kids to be responsible with knives, and I'm sure that you trust your kids to act responsible with knives, but what about all the other kids? I like knives about as much as anybody, but I don't believe that anyone should be allowed to carry a knife anywhere at any time. I don't think that kids need knives in school.

And for those of you who think that California has crazy knife rules, tell you what, if you have kids in public school, come monday morning, send your kid to school with one of your folders clipped in their pocket and see what happens. I think you'll find out real fast that California isn't the only state with "crazy" knife rules.
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Actually violence has been declining a lot in the past 20years. The difference is that the news like to focus on the bad things, social media and the internet allows people to post all the stupid stuff they did where as before it would be kept more isolated. And with camera phones everything is tape recorded or pictures taken than uploaded to the internet for all to see. And lets be honest we see and remember what we want, it is always better back in the day when we did "X" compared to this current generation. Ask someone who was driving back in the 70's and they tell you cars were the better back in the day as you could work on them and it was easy, could squeeze out more power by changing a few parts, etc. What they don't ever mention is how bad they handled, how frequently they broke down and required maintenance, crappy mpg, not nearly as safe (passive and active safety, don't know about you but I lost track how many friends I know who should be dead if it weren't for these new modern safety features), and how sluggish they were in comparison to modern vehicles.

As for the zero tolerance and reaction they had with the knife, it's no surprise I am in my mid 20's and grew up with this kind of enviroment.

Though usually from what I've seen most teachers if they knew the student would confiscate the knife, give them a very stern lecture and return the knife to a parent or something along those lines so they don't get suspended or expelled. But this was only with students they knew and trusted as they didn't want them to go on "vacation" from school and rather keep them in class so they could learn. Usually though from what I've seen most people were threatened with being stabbed by a pen more than a knife it was seen more as a weapon of opportunity and if they didn't use it and someone snitched on them it would be all based on their word and no real evidence. Where as with a knife it looked more planned out and it was a "weapon" and you were screwed no matter what, even if it was drawn in self defense. Only once have I heard of someone being threaten with a knife on campus and I saw the fight break out before they had a chance to get back into the locker room to get it which resulted in him getting his nose broken in what I call a "gentleman's" fight straight 1 on 1 boxing and not hitting an opponent when their down. The guy who broke the other guys nose was suspended, I am unsure of what happened to the guy who had his nose broken who is also the one who wanted to get his knife but I don't recall seeing him again so I am assuming he was expelled or they changed his classes. This happened close to 10 years ago.

Close to 10 years prior to that back in the 90's it was a lot more violent to my understanding with people getting jumped randomly when they announced someones name and posted it on the bulletin in front of the school just for fun. Garbage cans set on fire, etc (had family attend same school around 10yrs before me). None of that ever happened when I went there, and I doubt happens there now. What I am also seeing now is that the newer generations don't know how to fight as much as the older generations, know how to handle knives, tools, etc, or are as "tough" in terms of manual labor. And violence doesn't seem to come as natural to them, trash talking on the other hand though they have mastered.
 
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