Calling out D'farmer (or why jigs are bad)

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ugagrad06

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Sep 23, 2011
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So I'm at ace hardware in Kennesaw looking for some stuff to make a jig for my first real, from scratch knife project. Mr Farmer starts to help until I tell him what I want to do (create a jig to make repeatable flat grinds). I'm immediately called out as a budding knife maker and received about 20 minutes of good help and instruction. Not to mention being told NOT to do the jig and to learn how to free hand a grind.

I took your advice and have been practicing on paint sticks and cheap, Home Depot steel. My 01 just arrived, I have my layout and lines scribed on the dykem, and have just started to grind. Here we go!

Thank you for your time and help. I'll continue to update this post as my project moves forward and ask of thoughts and advice.

Good forum, tons of great advice, and I appreciate all you guys have stickied at the top. Pics pending when I get back home to continue the project.
 
JIgs are ok but it is nice to have multiple skills at your use and multiple tools like jigs etc. THe mroe you have to work with (both physical and mental) the better imo.
 
In any type of shop, whatever the manufacturing goal; the key is working smarter instead of harder. Once the goal is established its how you get there, what methods are used, what order you do them in and how efficiently its done. I manufacture products in hundreds at a time. Efficiency, for me is everything if I want to make a profit.
So, when I go about making something in my shop, I never ask myself, "will others accept what I am doing to make this item"I ask myself what makes seance; how can I make this item in the most efficient manner and get the results I want. I have found that this mental exercise will lead to working smarter, not harder. Practice works wonders, Fred
 
I say make the jig and use it. I made a flat grinding jig. Works great. I don't freehand at all and don't ever plan on it.
 
Maybe the essence is develop a method and/or a skill. Building a good jig and successfully using it could be considered both a method and a skill.

My personal preference is to develop skill and freehand all grinds. If you've got skill that's all you need. If your skill is making tools to do certain things then that's cool too. After all, it is really about what exactly is delivered to the customer, not our toils.
 
I use a jig to start my hollow grinds, and then finish them freehand...........Keeps me square and even on both sides..............carl
 
I always find this discusion a bit on the ridiculous side.They can be tools used just as grinders, surface grinders, milling machines and many other tools. It's not what you use for materials and tools; it's how good in end the finished knife is. Frank
 
if the jig stops you from tring a new style or making the jig takes longer then making the knife its for then i say rethink your use of jigs

if you are making a run of parts then a jig might be the best thing you can have at your bench
 
no shame in using a jig, because theres no shame in improving your work.

Jig grinding also gives you a firm grasp of the concepts involved and will actually increase your freehand skills if thats what you're going for.
 
Yes you can learn to become an accurate "Flesh Jig" because that is what freehand grinding makes you. I like to freehand grind but will use a jig in a heart beat to get a job done to my satisfaction if need be.
 
Freehanding is really fun, it's kind of like (if you're a shooter) the difference between skeet or pistol and 200 yd. bench shooting.
You use a jig (a bench and a sandbag and a spotter) for the highest repeatable accuracy, and you freehand for fun and creativity.

I always end up doing the final grinding semi-freehand, often with my hands or forearms resting on the tool rest, using the "body judo" everyone talks about- elbows locked in to the side of the body, low center of gravity, etc.

Not using a jig even when it's the smartest way to get from A to B is great- it's sort of a meditative exercise in paying extremely close attention to the work and really feeling what's going on, how the steel responds to the abrasive. Fun!

A.
 
Right now I use Freds bubble jig and I think its one of the best things I have done for my grinds so far. I still have a long ways to go but for now it helps me set my initial bevel. It isnt the easiest jig to learn how to use but once you get the hang of watching both the blade and the bubble it works like a charm. I usually do this to set my initial bevel then either free hand the rest of it with the grinder or switch over to files and sandpaper. Makes draw filing super easy because you have your initial bevel to go off of. Then set the height of bevel you want and finish up the work with a file. Lots of times Ill then go back to the grinder on a finer belt to get rid of the file marks.
 
Jigs are not bad. Just like milling machines, grinders, drill presses, clamps, wrenches, epoxy, platens, contact wheels, and screwdrivers are not bad.
 
I freehand grind all of my knives; that's how I've always done it.

For large production runs, a jig would make a lot of sense.
 
David is a cool guy. If you see him again, tell him I said hi.

I use a jig for my Scandi grinds. I have a jig I built to make micarta bolsters. Nothing wrong with using jigs. Craftsmen have been doing since craftsmanship began. If you get a chance to go to a Master's shop, never turn it down. The arrangement, the jigs, everything is a learning experience. My uncle was a master furnituremaker. His shop still stands in exactly the same way he left it. I love going in there and learning from him even though he is not with us anymore. He has jigs and fixtures, and little patterns hanging everywhere. You can see the flow of the work through his shop.

I agree with what Fred Rowe said. Strive to work as efficiently as you can. Always look for better ways to accomplish each step. The more efficiency you achieve, the more $ you made that hour.
 
Thanks for all of the insight and advice, guys. I think the point of David's advice was to build a good foundation of skills that I will be able to build upon in the future. Crawl, Walk, Run kind of a thing. I'm not as much chasing this hobby as a way to make money as much as I'm doing it for the enjoyment, therapy, and to soothe my "tinkerer" soul. Though if I end up doing more than a few of these, i'm sure i'll be setting up my jigs and templates and going from there.

I've got my design finished and cut out, and am about to start the flat grinds tonight. I'll have some photos by tomorrow afternoon up on the site for your thoughts and advice.

Great site. Great sticky's. Great attitudes. Thank you all for the welcome and thought.

-nic
 
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