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Calling! Sal Glasser!
- Thread starter RickJ
- Start date
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- Nov 3, 1998
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Rick,
What do you do in the Army? I'm sure knowing what mission the blade will fill will certainly help in the design. Do you march most typically, or ride?
Personally, while I was in the Infantry (A CO 1-5 Inf, Fort Lewis), I identified a need for a fixed blade knife for military personnel. Requirements were:
1) Blade length no more than 4 inches. This meant that the knife could be kept ready with our gear in our rooms, instead of stored in the arms room.
2) The knife should have a secure, very quick sheath, suitable for attaching to web gear. With a typical load, I believe chest carry on our LBV met the qualifications of fast, available carry that would not interfere with daily work. I identified a need for a knife like this after one of the soldiers in my squad was almost badly injured when his weapon- which was "type 3 fastened" to his gear*- became tangled in a vehicle he was dismounting. Since we were all wearing Gore-Tex, my folder (a mini-AFCK, at the time) was not instantly accessible.
3) The knife should be inexpensive. That's right- good quality, but fairly cheap. That's so Joe can buy one or more, and not cry when something happens to it- and stuff happens to real working knives. I was lending out my Kershaw Echo, which met most of my requirements for a knife like this, to my buddy in 3rd Brigade- it got caught and snapped off in a Stryker door. MSRP would hopefully be no more than $50.
4) The knife should have a guard, probably formed by the handle;
5) The knife should have a lanyard hole.
*company orders- Mickey Mouse BS
There are lots of higher-end production knives theoretically aimed towards service folk. What Joe needs, is a sturdy knife that he can afford, that won't get him into trouble with his chain of command, that is more useful than exotic. This should be a tool with an edge, not a beauty object or collector piece.
My thoughts-
John R. Shirley
What do you do in the Army? I'm sure knowing what mission the blade will fill will certainly help in the design. Do you march most typically, or ride?
Personally, while I was in the Infantry (A CO 1-5 Inf, Fort Lewis), I identified a need for a fixed blade knife for military personnel. Requirements were:
1) Blade length no more than 4 inches. This meant that the knife could be kept ready with our gear in our rooms, instead of stored in the arms room.
2) The knife should have a secure, very quick sheath, suitable for attaching to web gear. With a typical load, I believe chest carry on our LBV met the qualifications of fast, available carry that would not interfere with daily work. I identified a need for a knife like this after one of the soldiers in my squad was almost badly injured when his weapon- which was "type 3 fastened" to his gear*- became tangled in a vehicle he was dismounting. Since we were all wearing Gore-Tex, my folder (a mini-AFCK, at the time) was not instantly accessible.
3) The knife should be inexpensive. That's right- good quality, but fairly cheap. That's so Joe can buy one or more, and not cry when something happens to it- and stuff happens to real working knives. I was lending out my Kershaw Echo, which met most of my requirements for a knife like this, to my buddy in 3rd Brigade- it got caught and snapped off in a Stryker door. MSRP would hopefully be no more than $50.
4) The knife should have a guard, probably formed by the handle;
5) The knife should have a lanyard hole.
*company orders- Mickey Mouse BS
There are lots of higher-end production knives theoretically aimed towards service folk. What Joe needs, is a sturdy knife that he can afford, that won't get him into trouble with his chain of command, that is more useful than exotic. This should be a tool with an edge, not a beauty object or collector piece.
My thoughts-
John R. Shirley
Spectre, with your experience and your guidelines; how would the Temperance fixed blade be rated? The blade is a little longer than 4 inches, but not much...And there's a choice between SE & PE & Trainer (= brightly colored prybar? 
).
Thanks,
Wouter
).Thanks,
Wouter
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,331
Well, the Temp does:
have a good sheath;
have a useful, no-BS shape;
have a lanyard hole;
have a well-designed handle that functions as a guard.
Reduce the blade OAL by .5" and sell it for $50, and you're there! As it is, it's close enough in size and not some darn fantasy knife, so most NCOs would probably overlook it in a room/gear inspection, especially if it was already mounted on your gear (instead of under your pillow on on your belt in garrison).
A shorter, less expensive Fred Perrin would also work fine. It would help if the sheath was purpose-designed to fit LBV/ALICE-type attachments, but so long as lashing holes for 550/zip ties are well-placed, that's not essential.
edit- add a half-inch of blade to the Vagabond, an easily lashable sheath, and a lanyard hole, and YOU'RE THERE. Looks like you might make the $50 price point, too.
John
have a good sheath;
have a useful, no-BS shape;
have a lanyard hole;
have a well-designed handle that functions as a guard.
Reduce the blade OAL by .5" and sell it for $50, and you're there!
As it is, it's close enough in size and not some darn fantasy knife, so most NCOs would probably overlook it in a room/gear inspection, especially if it was already mounted on your gear (instead of under your pillow on on your belt in garrison).A shorter, less expensive Fred Perrin would also work fine. It would help if the sheath was purpose-designed to fit LBV/ALICE-type attachments, but so long as lashing holes for 550/zip ties are well-placed, that's not essential.
edit- add a half-inch of blade to the Vagabond, an easily lashable sheath, and a lanyard hole, and YOU'RE THERE. Looks like you might make the $50 price point, too.
John
I am in the Infantry as well, 10th MTN Div at Fort Drum, NY.
The knife that I have been talking about on this forum would make a good all around utility knife as well as self defense. It could be carried by hikers as well as soldiers. To be honest, I don't carry a fixed blade at all in the Army, Just a multi tool and a Spyderco Tactical, either the Military or the Endura.
Thats how I got the idea for this knife, I put the military in my hand and said I would love to have a fixed blade with this blade shape but bigger! About 5 -5.5 inch blade.
Rickj
The knife that I have been talking about on this forum would make a good all around utility knife as well as self defense. It could be carried by hikers as well as soldiers. To be honest, I don't carry a fixed blade at all in the Army, Just a multi tool and a Spyderco Tactical, either the Military or the Endura.
Thats how I got the idea for this knife, I put the military in my hand and said I would love to have a fixed blade with this blade shape but bigger! About 5 -5.5 inch blade.
Rickj
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1998
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- 4,331
Rick,
The knife you're describing sounds neat, but I'm afraid the blade length would put it into the "weapon" class for most.
I also think that a knife is not a defensive weapon, but that's another long thread.
The scout carry you mention- is this on gear (web belt? LBV?), or...?
John
The knife you're describing sounds neat, but I'm afraid the blade length would put it into the "weapon" class for most.
I also think that a knife is not a defensive weapon, but that's another long thread.
The scout carry you mention- is this on gear (web belt? LBV?), or...?
John
Scout carry would be on my pants belt, could be good for both hiking and on the job. We have IBA, Improved Body Armor that rides high on the back so scout carry is perfect for our gear these days. As a Defensive weapon, I think I said as a last line of Defense. If its all you got, its all you got! I also said that All around Utility to include food prep would be its primary use. I always carry knives for Utility first and self defense last but also believe my Military would give someone a very, very bad day.
Rickj
Rickj
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1998
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- 4,331
Rick,
I think I'm hearing you say you have an Interceptor vest. I'm also believing that you're NOT talking about using this with a ruck. Do y'all have Camelbacks yet? What is SOP gear in the field?
SOB-which it sounds like you're describing- has some problems, most notably that it takes a hand away from where you do everything/where potential risks theoretically are (front), as opposed to carry in an area with minimal movement needed to access (like chest carry on your nondominant side). Whatever works for you, though. I guess that's why there's more than 1 Spyderco and carry method.
John
I think I'm hearing you say you have an Interceptor vest. I'm also believing that you're NOT talking about using this with a ruck. Do y'all have Camelbacks yet? What is SOP gear in the field?
SOB-which it sounds like you're describing- has some problems, most notably that it takes a hand away from where you do everything/where potential risks theoretically are (front), as opposed to carry in an area with minimal movement needed to access (like chest carry on your nondominant side). Whatever works for you, though. I guess that's why there's more than 1 Spyderco and carry method.
John
Yes I am in the Army, but I am not thinking of that for this knife, in other words it may not even be a duty knife. I said in another post that all I carry on duty is a Multi Tool and a tactical folder usually my Spyderco Military! I believe in keeping as far away from the enemy as possible. Most of the other soldiers don't carry fixed blades either because of all the equipment we carry. No body wants to get into a knife fight.
As far as equipment, we have the Mollie System, and yes camelbacks come standard with the Mollie system.
As far as the knife, it could be used for skinning wild Game, food Prep around camp, fillet a fish, Yes I think the Flat grind could fillet a fish, and General Utility work. Because the cutting ability would be so good, it could be used for self defense if need be.
Rickj
As far as equipment, we have the Mollie System, and yes camelbacks come standard with the Mollie system.
As far as the knife, it could be used for skinning wild Game, food Prep around camp, fillet a fish, Yes I think the Flat grind could fillet a fish, and General Utility work. Because the cutting ability would be so good, it could be used for self defense if need be.
Rickj
RickJ said:
I never thought of that, probably because I am not in any service, but I guess a fighting knife doesn't help much if it's you in a 50-pound pack and boots vs. some guy packing nothing but his drawers and a machete.
The space a fixed blade takes up would probably be better spent on one of the many fine little pea shooters on the market in case your rifle ever becomes un-useful.
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As I mentioned earlier in-thread, there are times when a knife has to be available instantly. A folder is useful, but there are times when one cannot be instantly available. A small fixed blade carried on your LBV/armor can be instantly available, and unlike a small firearm, does not have to be stored in the arms room, and is considered entirely appropriate for field use- unlike personal firearms in most units.
Further, the RIFLE is very much a "backup" weapon for soldiers, with a very small percentage of kills actually happening with the rifle. Soldiers, real soldiers, need a small, sturdy, and inexpensive utility blade, not a large fighting knife.
Furthermore, when it comes down to it, even an unfiring carbine is much more useful for defense at close quarters than any blade smaller than a short sword, which of course cannot reasonably be carried.
John