Caly 3 vs Sage 1

EZ Bake · Mar 31, 2011

I just got in my Caly3 the other day and my first impression wasn't a good one.

I've had and used my Sage for a while and have had nothing but love for it. I didn't have to disassemble it and clean/lube like I've had to do on a lot of my Kershaws (and Benchmades), so I just assumed that this Caly3 would be the same way.

Upon getting it - it was very gritty to open. Understanding that it was a lock-back model (pinned scales and I assumed that the pivot was probably torqued too tight) I loosened the pivot screw some and it definitely made a difference, but there was still some grit in there.

Also, I noticed a flaw in the finish - its a smaller spot on the front of the tang well inside the scales, so its not enough to turn me off of the knife or anything, but I've never experienced a flaw with any of Spyderco's knives - even the value line.

The carbon fiber scales are very smooth, which I knew from reviews, but its definitely noticeable over the Sage - which is in my opinion much nicer (grippier, prettier, doesn't show scratches, etc. as badly).

I then noticed that after opening and closing the Caly, that it was scratching the tang from being up against the liners - so I ended up taking the blade out and found that there are no bushings on this knife - I don't know if that's how its designed, but its the first Spyderco I've ever found with no bushings in it.

Anywho, I cleaned it up (lots of metallic grit in there), and put some Lucas Assembly Lube in there. This stuff is now in almost every knife I own - its a super-tacky, doesn't break down with heat, lasts for a long time, glass-like lube that really seems to make a serious difference in the operation of a folder.

Knife is much smoother and the scratches aren't terrible on the tang once I cleaned them up, but the scratches go across both the steel identifyers/Spyderco label and the Japan label, so it was a bit unsightly (I don't mind scratches on the scales/blade as this is going to be a user, but when they look like they're there from a design issue, I kind of wonder about it). It will definitely be a user, but the bushing-less design kind of stumps me. Are all lock-back Spydercos bushing-less by design?

This thing is razor sharp - even for a Spyderco. The blade edge is polished, but has a few "toothy" spots on it, but I don't know if that's just a thing with ZDP-189 or not - I know this will cut paper so much easier than even my Sage - which would slide through even the thinnest paper with little effort.

Here's some comparison pics. I'm clearly no photographer but I tried using different lighting to see the difference in the scales - oh and the finish on the blades is so friggin perfect that they show every fingerprint even if I cleaned them repeatedly:

eatrustic · Mar 31, 2011

I have the same Caly 3 and I'm nuts about it. I've had none of the issues you describe with yours. It's been smooth and tight from day one (like you said incredibly sharp!).

At first I didn't think I'd like the smooth CF but as it turns out for my EDC it's perfect since I work in a bakery and cut open lots of flour bags that would normally cover a grippier finish with dust.

I also didn't think I'd like the smaller size as much as I do but my Bradley, Endura and Stretch have all taken a back seat since I started using it.

Big thumbs up on this little guy!

Frozy · Mar 31, 2011

All the spyderco lockback knives that i own are all gritty. An endura and 2 delicas made me decide that i will never buy a lockback from spyderco again. I got a sage 1 too. Im impressed by it, no complains at all

bd51 · Mar 31, 2011

I would send it in to Spyderco if it is as bad as you say.

Off topic but, use a microfiber cloth to clean your blades, it takes fingerprints right off.

Finedges · Mar 31, 2011

My Caly3 CF experience was exactly the same as yours. Now I just have the Sage I.

softrockrenegade · Mar 31, 2011

my experience is the exact opposite and I love my caly3 !!! If it's gritty wash and lube it ... I also think the carbon fiber used on the caly is WAY nicer than The laminate CF used on the Taiwan made knives . IMO the Moki made spydies are the finest made and have the most hand finishing and attention to detail of all !

hoopster · Mar 31, 2011

I've had two Caly3 cf's and both exhibited the tang scratches after opening a few times (doesn't bother me a bit) but both have also been smooth and solid. I've also had two Sage1's and both have been flawless and are my clear favorite over the Caly3.

I kept one of each but the Caly3 rarely gets carried over the Sage1. I also had a Sage2 that I didn't like as much as either of the Carbon fiber knives so I sold it.

I do think the Taiwan spydercos are as flawless as a knife in that price range can be. I love the Japan knives as well but in my experience, the Taiwan ones have a slight edge.

SCREEM · Mar 31, 2011

The Caly 3 has the mojo, it has that final hand finish on it. The sage is has that perfect CNC finish. I pick the caly3.

kadinh · Mar 31, 2011

My Caly 3 was the same as yours was, but as I used it, the grittyness went away, and now is non existent. The tang of the blade is all scratched up too, but it doesn't bother me. All that being said, the Caly is usually my edc, even over my sebenza.

I have a sage 1 on the way right now, so I'll be able to compare them soon.

EZ Bake · Mar 31, 2011

Appreciate the feedback guys. I was watching a demo video on the Native 5 Prototype from the IWA 2011 show and Eric Glesser was demonstrating that its the first lockback in history to have bushings - so I guess that answers my questions about bushings on a lock-back (and now makes me want to save up for a G10 Native 5).

Here's the vid btw (not to off-topic this thread too much):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTSaVW0XSO0

Since I cleaned it and lubed it with the Lucas Oil, its as smooth as can be. I'll also say this - when I originally loosened it up to free the blade from grittiness, it had just a tiny bit of blade-play (side-to-side), and that honestly bothered me more than the scratches.

After I cleaned/lubed it, I was able to tighten it up to the point that it didn't have any blade play at all and its as smooth opening/closing as my Sage 1. Since back-locks throughout the world (at least right now) don't have bushings, I can live with the scratches.

I will say that I like the Sage 1/Gayle Bradley's carbon fiber much more than that of the Caly 3s because I really like the texture for both aesthetics and grip.

So far, the two nicest Spydercos I've seen were the ones made in Taiwan (my old Gayle Bradley and my Sage 1). I've seen and held friends' (who talked me into the whole Spyderco thing) Delicas, and Para-Military knives and they were nice, but not as flawless as the Sage or Gayle Bradley.

All in all, after cleaning and lubing this little Caly 3, its a good knife and I have no issues with it (other than the visible finish mark that's on the tang under the scales - that just bothers me). Maybe I'll pull the blade and polish the tang or something - it doesn't seem worth sending back as its completely functional, very smooth opening/closing and razor sharp.

Jaydev · Mar 31, 2011

Great Review!! I'm sorry you had a problem with the smoothness of your Caly 3! My Caly 3 Cf and G-10 both open smooth but not as smooth as my Sage 1. You are so right with this CF Caly 3 being sharp! IMO the Caly cf is sharpest, caly vg10 is a close 2nd then sage 3rd... I wish the caly cf had cf like the sage. I love the grippyness on the sage. I also like the grip better on my g10 caly 3 over the cf caly 3... for me the perfect knife would be Caly 3 zdp-189 with sage carbon fiber, liner lock, and I prefer the darker sage wire clip.

EZ Bake · Mar 31, 2011

So the more I carry this Caly3, the more its growing on me. I think I'm going to keep carrying it for a while and using it - the blade seems to have stayed sharp through the small amount of use I've put it through so far, and its size/ergos are nearly perfect (I like that the handle is smaller than my Sage).

My only ergo issue is that I wish the choil was more pronounced like the Sage's choil. I keep worrying about my finger slipping forward of it and onto that razor-sharp edge. The jimping seems aggressive enough, but there's not much else there to prevent it.

I definitely like the skinnier blade and thumb-ramp though. Wire clip puts this one deeper into the pocket than even the Sage.

All in all, I'm definitely not unhappy with this purchase.

Undertow82 · Apr 1, 2011

I' still curious about the fact that it didn't have bushings. What's up with that? I've never seen a folding knife that didn't have washers of some type.

gull wing · Apr 1, 2011

The Caly is a fine knife but I like the Sage better because it has a wider handle. The Caly is quite narrow and I can't get comfortable with it.

macmiddlebrooks · Apr 1, 2011

My 2 cents: Sage 1 is the best Spyderco EDC hands down....everything just clicks with the sage. I also always recommend it to anyone who asks what is the best folder for $100 or less. I carry a small Sebenza, but if I didn't....it would be a Sage 1 every time.

EZ Bake · Apr 2, 2011

Undertow82 said:
I' still curious about the fact that it didn't have bushings. What's up with that? I've never seen a folding knife that didn't have washers of some type.

Looks like from what I can find on the net - no lock-back folder has bushings. I don't understand why, but apparently its a design thing that all (or at least, all I could find) lock-backs share.

D1omedes · Apr 3, 2011

EZ Bake said:
Looks like from what I can find on the net - no lock-back folder has bushings. I don't understand why, but apparently its a design thing that all (or at least, all I could find) lock-backs share.

Well, that's not entirely true. The Delica 4 and Endura 4 both have phosphorous bronze bushings. The Salt series do not but the FRN handles have washers cast from the mold - if that makes sense. Essentially, the FRN UKPK and Salt series have small lips on the inside of the handle scales that mimic washers.

The Caly series also do not have washers. Sal has explained in the past that in an effort to make the knife as slim as possible, it was decided that there would be pin construction with no washers. I thought this was strange until I purchased a Caly 3 myself. My first one was used and has very smooth action. The second one was NIB and was a bit gritty. Not trusting myself, I didn't remove the blade. I just cleaned it several times, applied WD40 and later Tuf-Glide. The action has smoothed up considerably. I'm sure daily use helps as well.

EZ Bake · Apr 3, 2011

D1omedes said:
Well, that's not entirely true. The Delica 4 and Endura 4 both have phosphorous bronze bushings. The Salt series do not but the FRN handles have washers cast from the mold - if that makes sense. Essentially, the FRN UKPK and Salt series have small lips on the inside of the handle scales that mimic washers.

The Caly series also do not have washers. Sal has explained in the past that in an effort to make the knife as slim as possible, it was decided that there would be pin construction with no washers. I thought this was strange until I purchased a Caly 3 myself. My first one was used and has very smooth action. The second one was NIB and was a bit gritty. Not trusting myself, I didn't remove the blade. I just cleaned it several times, applied WD40 and later Tuf-Glide. The action has smoothed up considerably. I'm sure daily use helps as well.

Hmmm. You are correct sir. That's strange that Eric Glesser wouldn't realize that :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTSaVW0XSO0&feature=player_detailpage#t=170s

D1omedes · Apr 3, 2011

EZ Bake said:
Hmmm. You are correct sir. That's strange that Eric Glesser wouldn't realize that :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTSaVW0XSO0&feature=player_detailpage#t=170s

Well, I think we are talking about two different forms of a "bushing."

The one that Eric is referencing is something similar to CRK's bushing system - in which there is a separate cylinder that goes through both handle scales and the tang of the blade. Thus, there are two screws on either side that screw into said cylinder. By tightening down those screws, you don't change the action of the knife as much. This allows the factory to dial in the action of each knife more accurately and ensure high quality control standards. This cylindrical bushing still has two phosphorous bronze bushings between the tang and the liners.

The Delica/Endura series have a male/female screw assembly with phosphorous bronze bushings between the tang and the liners. The male/female design allows users to tighten or loosen the action on the knife.

I know there are threads somewhere that show the guts of a Para 2 or a Manix 2, which display the bushing system that Eric is referencing in that video.

Cynic2701 · Apr 4, 2011

D1omedes said:
Well, I think we are talking about two different forms of a "bushing."

The one that Eric is referencing is something similar to CRK's bushing system - in which there is a separate cylinder that goes through both handle scales and the tang of the blade. Thus, there are two screws on either side that screw into said cylinder. By tightening down those screws, you don't change the action of the knife as much. This allows the factory to dial in the action of each knife more accurately and ensure high quality control standards. This cylindrical bushing still has two phosphorous bronze bushings between the tang and the liners.

The Delica/Endura series have a male/female screw assembly with phosphorous bronze bushings between the tang and the liners. The male/female design allows users to tighten or loosen the action on the knife.

I know there are threads somewhere that show the guts of a Para 2 or a Manix 2, which display the bushing system that Eric is referencing in that video.

CRK uses a bushing system with Chicago screws. The bushing fits perfectly over the female screw, and the washers go on either side.

Spyderco has a bushing that is a female screw on both sides, and two male pivot screws go in from both sides, with washers on both sides. (That's kind of dirty...get your mind out of the gutter

)

Both do essentially the same thing, but I think that CRK's version, while being much more expensive to manufacture, has a few advantages. On the other hand, I'm quite impressed that Spyderco has managed to get a bushing system on knives around the $100 mark.

Oh, and I gotta say that the CF Caly 3 trumps both the Sage I and II.