Calypso Jr. Lw plain v. Native plain

Flood

Flood

Joined
Jul 31, 2000
Messages
274
Hi. All hail Spyderco knife-nuts! First post!

I've been checking out this forum for a week now and am really impressed with how friendly, helpful, and patient everyone is, especially with newbies like me.
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Btw, kudos to Sal for being so pro-active in sharing his time, knowledge, and interest with others in this forum. You really don't see that kind of involvement from a company insider very often.

Well, this is the first time I will purchase a knife. I've been given as gifts cheapo or no-name brands before by "philistines" (non-knife-nuts), but since I'm a knife-nut myself, I decided to start a serious collection. I did some research on the web, and Spyderco really appealed to me. Their knives seem to have an identity which others don't...which is troubling considering you can easily acquire the deadly disease of the fanatical collector!

I've already decided to get a Military plain, a Starmate 50/50, and a Dyad Jr. Only a mid-range knife is missing, and I just can't seem to make up my mind b/w the Native plain and the Calypso Jr. Lightweight plain. I already am aware of most of the important differences b/w them...that the steel quality of the Native is superior, that it is a bit longer, that it has a swedge grind while Calypso has a flat one, etc. I would just like to get your impressions, especially from those who own both and are partial to one of them over the other. Which one would you prefer to have if you had to make the decision for one of those two mid-sizes, and why? Which is your favorite, and why?

Thanks in advance!
 
Flood,

Hard choice. I struggle almost everyday about which of these two to carry. I'm really equal on both of them. Well, I'm sure THAT helps!

Seriously, with the choices you have already decided on, I'd go for the Calypso, Jr. Ltwt. It's a different steel that takes a wickedly sharp edge. The blade geometry is different than the others you've already selected also. I like it, 50% of the time I like it more than my Native.

Dean

P.S. Oh, and welcome to the Spyderco Forum; it's a great place to hang out with a great bunch of folks to talk to - and Sal gives input on a regular basis!

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"All is well. And all will be well - in the garden." Chance the Gardener

[This message has been edited by RDaneel (edited 07-31-2000).]
 
> I've already decided to get a Military plain, a Starmate 50/50, and a Dyad Jr.

If you'll let me indulge my annoying habit of offering advice where none was asked ... Coming up with a plan is great. But don't buy them all at once. I find that with every knife I buy, some strength or weakness I discover often changes my selection criteria, and I end up changing my plan. You don't know how many times I wanted to buy several knives at once, resisted the temptation, and was very glad later on!

> b/w the Native plain and the Calypso Jr. Lightweight plain. I already am aware
> of most of the important differences b/w them...that the steel quality of the
> Native is superior,

Nice choices. One thing, though, not everyone is convinced that 440-V is necessarily uncategorically "better" than VG-10. Both steels are excellent, I wouldn't let the steel choice sway me one way or the other.

However, this does remain an easy choice for me. Most importantly, the Native does not fit my hand, it feels terrible. The Calypso Jr. feels great in my hand, in numerous different positions. Of course, there are plenty of people around who will swear that the Native feels much better in their hands than the calypso. Which brings about an important point: handle these knives before you pick, you may find your first choice to not feel good in your hand.

There are other things I love about the Calypso as well, but the handle on the Native makes all the rest moot.

Joe
 
Originally posted by Joe Talmadge:
>>Coming up with a plan is great. But don't buy them all at once.<<

Heh, don't worry Joe. I already decided that the Military will come later on. I really don't need TWO large knives right now, and the Starmate looks much cooler. Plus, shelling out $200 for just 2 knives right away just doesn't appeal to me or my wallet! The others, though, are a definite buy, considering that they are different sizes and have different purposes.

>>There are other things I love about the Calypso as well, but the handle on the Native makes all the rest moot.<<

Please don't hesitate to post those "other things" you like about the Calypso Jr. I need all the help I can get!

Great replies so far. Please keep 'em coming!

-Flood


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-It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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Flood - welcome to the forums!

I have the PlainEdge Calypso Jr., and until recently had a PlainEdge Native (yes, yes, I'm getting another one real soon). As far as handles go, I'd have to say that I like the Native better, with its nice deep choil and thumb serrations. Then again, as mentioned, other people find the Calypso more comfortable -- I have small hands, this may or may not have something to do with my preference. Probably best to handle the knives yourself for this one.

One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned is that the Native is carried tip-up, the Calypso tip-down. I personally prefer tip-up carry, I'm not sure what you prefer but I notice that your other choices (Military, StarMate) are tip-down. This might be something else to consider.

Wow, how totally unhelpful, I seem to have only brought up more questions. Sorry!
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I'd go for the Lightweight Nativer if only to get the 440V blade. I have come to the opinion that the 440V in my BF Native, my StarMate, and my Military is the best steel, by far, that I have ever found in a knife. Others may disagree, but that is my experience. I would also recommend against serrations on your StarMate, why f**k up a wonderful knife unless you need them for something like cutting rope, carpet, or PVC pipe. I was able to get my first Terzuola Clipit, a C-15, only with a 60/40 combination blade and I came to hate those damned serrations! They were the only thing that I do not like about the knife. Any way, I think that you will love your choices, whatever you do, as you have made very good basic decisions.

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Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller

[This message has been edited by FullerH (edited 07-31-2000).]
 
Originally posted by Novadak:
>Flood - welcome to the forums!

Thank you, I really enjoy it here
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>One thing I don't think anyone has >mentioned is that the Native is carried tip->up, the Calypso tip-down. I personally >prefer tip-up carry, I'm not sure what you >prefer but I notice that your other choices >(Military, StarMate) are tip-down. This >might be something else to consider.

I agree. I swear after looking at Spydies for so long these last few days, I did not notice such an essential feature. Thanks for pointing it out. I agree with you that tip up makes much more sense, especially for drawing the knife faster and more comfortably, however, as you pointed out, my other choices are tip-up, so I figure let's go with consistency!

>Wow, how totally unhelpful, I seem to have >only brought up more questions. Sorry!
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Nah, you've been totally helpful. I really appreciate your comments.



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-It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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Originally posted by FullerH:
>>I would also recommend against serrations on your StarMate, why f**k up a wonderful knife unless you need them for something like cutting rope, carpet, or PVC pipe. I was able to get my first Terzuola Clipit, a C-15, only with a 60/40 combination blade and I came to hate those damned serrations! They were the only thing that I do not like about the knife.<<

Great point. I was 100% sure about getting a 50/50 Starmate, but ever since I've seen that 99.9% of posters here prefer plain edges, and their reasons for their preference, I reconsidered my choice. However, I'm still partial to a 50/50 edge, since I don't mind at least half-serrations and eventually I'm getting a plain military anyway! Plus I possess a mid-size no-name knife which has a 50/50 edge, and it looks and works out really nice. Also, the Calypso Jr. or Native that I will get will also be a plain blade.

Oh, and I HATE full serrations, might as well get a saw.


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-It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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Between the Native and the Calypso Jr., I prefer the Calypso Jr. Here's why:

1. The full flat grind and thin edge profile make the Calypso Jr. one of the most efficient knives I've ever seen, if not THE most.

2. The handle configuration and position of the lock spring release on the Native make it prone to accidental partial disengagement when held upside down, as when cutting with the edge upward. My middle finger squeezes right on the lock release point. Definitely not good. You'll notice that the Calypso Jr. Lightweight has a concavity in the metal at that point.

3. The Native feels secure in my hand, but the handle shape is a bit limiting. The form is too specifically designed for a particular grip. I find it a lot more convenient to peel an apple (for example) with the Calypso Jr.

4. The VG-10 steel is great. So is 440-V but I think I like VG-10 better. Who knows. Maybe it's really the super efficient blade and edge geometry of the Calypso that makes me think it's better steel. At any rate, it gets really sharp (sharper than my Native), and stays that way longer than I think it ought to.

David Rock

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AKTI Member # A000846
Stop when you get to bone.

[This message has been edited by David Rock (edited 07-31-2000).]
 
Welcome Flood!
I own both a Native & a Calypso Jr. They are BOTH great knives and both VG-10 & CPM 440V are excellent steels with different advantages.VG-10 sharpens easier and holds a nice edge. CPM440V is tough stuff!! Harder to sharpen but holds an edge like nothing else!!
You may also want to consider the excellent sharpening system from Spyderco - Triangle sharpener model 204. Well designed, well thought out AND an instruction manual + a VIDEO with none other than Mr. Glesser showing you how to use it!!!
I wish I could be more help with your decision but you will probably find out as many of us have - each Spydie has it's own personality and you'll eventually own BOTH Native & Calypso Jr.!!
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John Row
colobbfan

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I've had more paper cuts than cuts from knives, but the knives are QUICKLY gaining!
 
I'd have to go with the Calypso Jr. for most of the reasons already posted. Great knife, wicked sharp and as the name indicates "lightweight". I had a nice neck sheath made for mine and I wear it practically everyday.
BTW, welcome to the forums.
Eric
 
Okay, reasons I like the Calypso Jr. ... basically footnotes on David Rock's reasons

1. The full flat grind and thin edge profile make the Calypso Jr. one of the most efficient knives I've ever seen, if not THE most.
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This is the #1 reason. There is no blade, not even the Native, that will touch the Calypso Jr. Properly sharpened, it is amazing. About a year or so ago, I sharpened mine so sharp, I could slice hairs lengthwise with it! No exaggeration. I could slice a hair 1/4" or more, very easily, every time. I actually sent that knife and some lengthwise-sliced hairs to Spyderco, but sent it to a person just as she was leaving Spyderco, and my knife apparently got lost in the shuffle.

2. The handle configuration and position of the lock spring release on the Native make it prone to accidental partial disengagement when held upside down, as when cutting with the edge upward. My middle finger squeezes right on the lock release point. Definitely not good. You'll notice that the Calypso Jr. Lightweight has a concavity in the metal at that point.
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Didn't realize that about the Native, but can confirm the Calypso Jr. has no such problem for me.

3. The Native feels secure in my hand, but the handle shape is a bit limiting. The form is too specifically designed for a particular grip. I find it a lot more convenient to peel an apple (for example) with the Calypso Jr.
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Well, on the Native, the handle simply doesn't work for me. On the Calypso Jr., I just love the handle. The curves are all in the right place, the choil is well-placed for maximum control of that incredible edge.

4. The VG-10 steel is great. So is 440-V but I think I like VG-10 better. Who knows. Maybe it's really the super efficient blade and edge geometry of the Calypso that makes me think it's better steel. At any rate, it gets really sharp (sharper than my Native), and stays that way longer than I think it ought to.
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Hey, I'm still using my AUS-8 Calypso jr. I think the edge geometry and ergonomics on that knife do make the steel look good. I'd go so far as to say that I'd take the AUS-8 Calypso Jr. over the 440V Native, I like the Calypso pattern that much.

All of which makes me sound like I don't like the Native, but that's not true. Although it doesn't fit my hand, I can look at it and see it's an excellent design. But even ignoring that, the Calypso Jr.'s blade is something else.

Joe

 
Hmm... Calypso Jr. Lt. or Native? That's a tough choice. I personally think I like the Native more.

The Calypso Jr. Lt. feels a little fragile; it's lighter than the Native and doesn't feel as sturdy. Plus, on my CJL, pressing hard on the edge can force the blade back a tiny bit when it's in the locked position. It's not a big deal, but it's slightly annoying.

I also like the Native's handle a bit more. The deep choil is cool and I like that the lock release is farther back on the handle. I found the CJL's handle texture was a bit too rough for me, so I coated mine with polyurethane to make it slicker.

A neat thing about the Native's handle and blade shape is that it allows two distinctly different hand positions in a "saber" type grip; a regular grip with your thumb entirely on the handle or a choked up grip with your index finger in the choil and your thumb mostly on the blade's spine. With the CJL, the thumb position in these two grips remains essentially unchanged.

On the other hand though, the Calypso Jr. Lt. does have that great blade geometry and metal inserts for clip screws. Plus, it rides low in the pocket and looks very elegant.

Geez, what a difficult decision! Anyway, you should definately try to handle them before you choose.
 
Flood - welcome to the Spyderco forum. I believe the "pros" have given you much more input than I could have. (thanx)

Both good, just different.

sal
 
Gotta add my 2 cents...

Except for the Native, I've every one of the Spydies that you're planning to buy. First off, since I don't have a Native, I can't help you in that decision. The Calypso Jr. Ltwt is an awesome blade. It's small and light enough to carry anywhere, but the blade is incredibly useful. Based on the ositive opinions of the Native, either would be a good choice.

My plainedge Military is my favorite knife (with the Cal. Jr. Lt. second). I really like the flat grind and the edgeholding of the 440V. I haven't' exposed it to salt water, but I've never had a rust problem in fresh water or sweat. It's also my most comforable large folder to carry in my waistband. I hate to leave home without it.

My 50/50 Starmate is great knife too, but now that I have the 50/50, I really wish I had bought the plainedge. Some part of my brain seems to think that having the serrations having the best of both worlds. After my 50/50 Endura and lusting for a 50/50 Benchmade Eclipse (I got a plainedge AFCK instead), you'd think I would have learned, but I somehow convinced myself that the 50/50 Starmate would be better. It's not, at least not for typical use. I don't cut fiberous material frequently, so the serrations are used only if I get lazy in cutting cardboard boxes. The 440V is wonderful stuff and doesn't need the serrations. However, Spyderco's serrations are the best.

The Mini Dyad (Dyad Jr. now) is great little knife. It's better than a 50/50 blade because each one of it's blades are greater in length than the appropriate portion of a Spyderco 50/50 blade. I don't' use my Dyad much anymore because I like larger blades, but I still carry it with me. 95% of the times that I've used the Dyad, I use the serrated blade. That may seem contrary to my schpeal about serrations, but most of the tasks that I used the Dyad for only used the large serration closest to the handle. I rarely used the plainedge because I wanted to keep the fine tip in that shape for a task that I really need a sharp point. I've got the original Dyad Jr. with the Micarta scales and a metal clip. I haven't played with the Lightweight Dyad Jr., but I was concerned that the actin wouldn't be as smooth as the steel liners on the Micarta model. The only negative thing I have to say about the Dyad Jr. is that the opening holes are a bit small, even for my small hands. I prefer the "traditional" opening method of using my thumb to slowly open the blade, not the blade grasp and drop or using 2 hands to open the knife (that defeats the advantage of a Spyderco). Now that the full size Dyad is available, another puchase may take place very soon.

Last, even though you hate full serrations, try a less expensive fully serrated knife. My first Spyderco is (yes I still have it) a fully serrated Delica in G-2 (Gin-1 now). It's still a very good knife. The day I bought my Military, I had to cut some weeds off the prop of the houseboat that I on. Those serrations made short work of the long fiberous stems. One of the other guys on the boats said it all: "I don't know what we would have have done if you didn't have that knife!"

Whatever decisions you make, enjoy.
 
Flood,
I agree with Joe and David as to Calypso advantages and I would like to add some my grosz's (Polish cents
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Choosing between Native and Calypso think about these points of difference:
* Native is designed for tip-up carry, Calypso - for tip-down. What do you like more?
* Native has deep hollow ground blade more suitable for shallow cuts, Calypso Jr. Ltw. has ideally flat ground blade with very thin high performance edge excellent for deep precise slicing.
* Native has spear-point blade with pronounced almost-sharp swedge and straight blade - handle line. In my opinion it is better thruster. Calypso has bent handle for better leverage when slicing. And it performs really excellently when slicing, please look here for some very discussible
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data for comparison.

[This message has been edited by Sergiusz Mitin (edited 08-01-2000).]
 
I'll not give long ansves as important things are covered...

BUT I LOVE Calypsos - all of them. I have juniors with SS, ltwt and micarta handles. I have one large too. I'd take a large Calypso for my only folder anytime (followed by jr).

Native is great knife. I have two BF Natives. They are superb knives but the design is more limited.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is carrying comfort that has nothing to do with tip-down/tip-up clip position.
Calypso rides clearly more comfortably in my pocket than Native. I notice the difference especially when I sit down with jeans on.

 
Thank you all for your excellent input. I must admit that I was leaning toward purchasing the Calypso Jr. Lw ever since I started this post, but had enough doubts to warrant a discussion in the forum. The strange thing is, once I made up my mind that I wanted that knife over the Native, I started looking more closely at the Wegner Jr. and fell in love with it. HOWEVER, for a mid-size knife, it was a bit out of my range, and I was going to acquire a Calypso Jr. anyway. So, the Calypso Jr. it is!

Anyway, I already sent for my first 2 Spydies...the Calypso Jr. and the Zytel Dyad Jr. Let's see, so far I have covered small and mid-sized. Only Starmate and Military left for large-sized blades. Can't wait to get that Starmate, hopefully in the near future.

Thanks so much for your advice!

-Flood

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-It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
 
Okay, I have a question for you guys. I am planning to buy a Calypso Jr. with a plain edge, but I cannot decide between the Micarta handle or the Kydex handle. I understand that the micarta handled version and the lightweight version also has a different type of steel. Can any of you give me some advice on this? I guess I really need to handle these knives before ordering them, but, alas, I don't know of any dealers in my area that carry these models. Oh welll...

--Matt (Mundele)
 
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