camera question for Shelby

H

harrydog

Joined
Feb 29, 2000
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332
Shelby, I know you use a Sony DSC-F707, and the results are outstanding. But I think I remember you mentioning that you were waiting for another comera to become available. Which one was that?
I was into photography at one time and used a Nikon F3, which I still have. I also use a Contax T2 for a pocket camera.
Now I've decided it's time to enter the realm of digital photography, but I just don't know what to buy.
I've read nothing but good things about the Sony F707. In playing around with one, I found the zoom control to be somewhat awkward. Have you found that to be an issue?
I've thought of getting a Nikon D100 or a Canon D60, but I've heard that there is a problem with dust getting on the CCD with changeable lenses, plus I think I like the idea of an integral lens, as long as it's a good one and has a usable range.
I really like the Olympus E10 and E20 but they seem to have really slow write times. The Minolta Dimage 7i is a possibility.
Also the Nikon Coolpix 5700 when it comes out.
What are your thoughts or recommendations on a good camera that I won't outgrow anytime soon?
I welcome anyones suggestions, not just Shelby's.
Thanks!
 
I think 6mpx+ SLR is a way to go :)
What's the problem with the dust? As I understand the lenses are the same as on film cameras.
 
I'm using an Olympus E10 currently, but am looking to make the move to the Fuji S2 when it's released.

Not that I'm not happy with the E10, but I want the larger selection of lens'. The E10 is a great camera.

As to file write time. Of course it depends on the size file your writing. I do 99% of my shooting on the highest resolution and the lowest compression jpeg format (largest files short of RAW or Tiff) and I'd say there is like a maybe 3 second write to my card. The camera has a buffer that will hold several shots while writting is in progress. I've yet to shoot faster then it'll write.

Having said all that, seeing what Shelby and Joel can do with the Sony F707, you can't argue against it. :D
 
From what I've read, because you are taking lenses on and off, there is the tendancy for dust to get on the CCD over time and it must then be professionally cleaned, which is expensive. A fixed lense SLR like the Olympus E20 eliminates that issue.
 
John, I've heard that the E20 is actually slower than the E10 in terms of write times. But as you say, it may not be an issue for most users.
Have you ever been at dpreview.com?
 
Harry,

Indeed, I live by my se7en because it's been giving me the results I want. My next camera would be a Nikon D100. I am still waiting for it to be fully released here in the States and read more reviews about it. As with the 707, I got it about 6 months after it came out because there were problems like DLS "Dark left side" and BFS "Blue flash syndrom", over red saturation, etc. After some numbers of good reviews, I went for it. I haven't heard anything about the next 707 but what ever it would be, should be a good thing. I had the 505 previously and I was used to the zoom control on the body. Shortly thereafter, I was used to the 707's zoom on the barrel. It feels more natural now that I am use to it.
As far as dust getting into the ccd, I haven't read up on that yet but I will be doing some further research. I will not be getting a D100 until about 3 months+ after full release so hopefully, they will fix flaws if there are any.
I would definetly go for a 6mp+ SLR if you are serious about digital photography or want to start getting serious. Keeping in mind, once you step into the SLR world, you will be spending $$$ for lenses. Enough to match up to the price of camera body easily. However, the results are much better and there is more flexibility when compared to a fixed lense digital camera. I would go to www.dpreview.com and check out all the cameras that bake your noodle.

Shelby
 
The dust problem is not merely due to the sensor chip being open to potential dust entry; it is due to the sensor chip and chip housing actively attracting dust. This active attraction of dust can lead to large accumulations of dust rather quickly. At the professional level of photography, it can be a very serious issue. It can leave splotches in all of your pictures until you clean the chip off.

Further, cleaning the chip off is usually not as simple as it sounds. Many digital cameras require special tools which you must buy separately to reach the chip to clean it. And the chip generally cannot be accessed on-site--it needs to be done at home with the camera attached to a plugged-in charger. Many interchangeable-lens digital SLRs need to be brought in for a professional cleaning in order to remove dust. Even this can be hard to accomplish, since people who are qualified to clean many models of digital cameras are rare.

At the serious amateur level, the dust problem may not be as big of an issue, depending on your particular needs and situation. Some people who only need top-quality versions of a few shots, now and then, may be satisfied with manually correcting the digital photos in Photoshop.

The dust problem affects nearly all interchangeable-lens digital SLRs except for the Canon EOS D30 & Eos D60. These specific models of Canons do not have CCD chips, like most other cameras; they have CMOS chips, instead. They also have chip housings that are especially well designed for repelling dust.

I know a professional racetrack photographer who only needed to clean his Canons once in more than a year of use. And that's a very dusty environment.

Of course, that may not be a convenient choice unless you already use the Canon EOS system, because a whole new lens system is an expensive venture. Further, the Canons do have a few drawbacks, such as a lack of spotmetering capability, and poor autofocus. There are great benefits and serious drawbacks with whichever system you choose; it will probably be this way until the digital camera market becomes more mature.
 
Yes, I read most of the review site for Digicams.

While doing some research resently I surfed into a site that was pretty interesting. http://www.bythom.com

There are some pretty interesting articles on the site, including one on CCD cleaning and a comparison of the D100 to the S2.

I'm with Shelby, I'll wait a few months for the bugs to be worked out before I pony up.
 
The "problem" that I have with digital cameras, as Evolute mentioned, is that they are still evolving rather rapidly. You could spend $5K on a digital SLR camera body and it would be somewhat obsolete in a couple of years.
That makes the less expensive cameras like the Sony F707, Olympus E20, Nikon 5700, etc., all the more appealing to me right now.
 
As an EOS user I have more problems with my developers getting dust on my negs or slides. As for the system itself... As Shelby said lenses cost bucks you want fast focus you have to spend $$$. The D30 is a CCD Camera and is fairly dust and mosture blocked but as with all upgrades things get better... the D60 is a CMOS and the housing is much like the EOS3 and EOS1v... some 50+ seals and gaskets to block dust and moisture. To that point a friend of mine shoots a D60 and was at a high school soccor practice when the sprinklers came on around him. Of course he freaked and ran like a madman... but then camera like him got soaked or at least he thought so... he got home pulled it apart and let it dry out... after dry time he put it back together and downloaded the soccor shots and the camera never missed a beat... will they all do this I dont know but you do get what you pay for in most cases... Kinda like Striders. and I wait for the EOS Digital that shoots a full 35mm frame quasi-tele-zooms suck.

Shelby,
Also no need to answer my other question about macro set-up if you use the 707. that is not a bad little camera
 
Brandon is mistaken about the kind of photosensitive chip in the D30. It is a CMOS chip, as I originally stated, not a CCD chip, as per Brandon's later comment.

"In addition to a lower price, what appears to set the D30 apart from previous and other digital SLRs (the Nikon D1 and Fuji S1 Pro come to mind) is that its imaging chip is a proprietary CMOS design rather than a CCD."

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/d30.htm

--Mike
 
I was browsing at dpreview.com and found a link to someone's photo's taken with a D30. They were among the most incredible images I've ever seen from a digital camera. That just goes to show you that the current crop of cameras are very capable and the quality of the photos depends primarily on the photographer. Unfortunately I can't find that link again.
I wish that the Nikon D100 was based on the N90 or F100 body rather than the N80 body. Both of those other bodies are of higher quality and have much better sealing.
 
Just ordered the D-60 a couple of weeks ago. I have two EOS 1's and am one of the last shooters to go digital around here. If you have Nikon lenses go Nikon . The same applies if your in the Canon system. Unless your independently wealthy in whish case EOS 1D sounds real good. If you don't have lenses already perhaps the E10 or 20 are your best bet. Also consider use. Will you be shooting for yourself or are you trying to make a living with it. Some limitations are acceptable if your not answering to a higher photographic authority. (aka an editor) Good luck with whatever you decide. :rolleyes:? ec
 
I had thought the original D30s shipped with a CCD and not a CMOS but hey it seems this is incorrect. This was the original reason I did not want a D30. That and the Quasi-Tele-Zoom. Oh well I was wrong. Sorry about that.
 
Buying a digital camera is somewhat akin to buying a PC, next year something always comes along better and cheaper.
I purchased the D-30 canon last fall and love it. Since I already shot Canon 35mm and had an assortment of lenses, it was an easy choice. I don't think I have even picked up my EOS 35 since!
With the 1Gig microdrive and the power booster battery pack I can shoot 300 shots at full resolution before it needs recharging, depending on the amount of autofocusing use,and still have 450 more shots left on the drive. Great results, highly recommend it.

Jeffrey
 
Jeffery, How bad is the quazi-tele-zoom with the D-30? My friends D-60 is not too bad but I am still stuck on 35mm. Thanks for any info.
 
Brandon, are you asking about the apparent magnification (how much smaller the angle-of-view seems) in the D30 (due to using a photosensitive chip which is smaller than a 35mm piece of film)? I don't recall exactly, but I think it makes your images appear about 1.5 times larger than they would with the same lens projected onto 35 mm film. Let me know if you want me to find out the exact figure.
 
Brandon,
I think 1.5 x magnification is about accurate, I adapted by getting a 17-35mm zoom on the wide end, something that would be normally not very useful in 35mm for me, but works great on the D-30. Don't forget the magnification helps out on the long lenses, makes images in my 70-200L appear to be 300mm. Its hard to beat Canons quality and availability of lenses, e-bay has hundreds very reasonable every day.

Jeffrey
 
I got a Sony F707 about three months ago. Can't do much of anything with it, other then point and shoot.
DAMN ! Maybe I should read that booklet that came with it. :eek:
 
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