Camillus era type of steel

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OklahomaBryan

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Oct 14, 2014
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I believe Camillus used 440A steel in many of their own brand of stainless steel knives. I would like to know if that is the steel they used when making the Buck folding knives?

In my experience, the current Buck pocket knives (like the Buck large stockman) holds a much better edge than the older Camillus made knives. So I was thinking that it might be different steel.

Thanks, Bryan
 
OklahomaBryan said:
I believe Camillus used 440A steel in many of their own brand of stainless steel knives. I would like to know if that is the steel they used when making the Buck folding knives?
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440A is my understanding, so yes.
 
Bryan, welcome to the Buck Forum. This subject we have discussed and no definitive answer can be arrived at. So, us collectors speculate that Camillus at times used 440A on some of Buck's contract models made from 75-80. This is the most I'll go out on a limb with this subject and still no one can prove it. Not even respected Camillus employees. DM
 
Four of Buck's slip-lock models were brought in house with their new plant in El Cajon in late 1985. A few left over parts knives surface from time to time. Four models came into Buck's plant then and will have 425M steel. Then these models changed steel again in 1994 to 420HC. All Buck models made since will have this steel. Even the Camillus/ Buck's Millennium Trapper as I was told this by long term Camillus employee Phil Gibbs a forum member. DM
 
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David Martin said:
Bryan, welcome to the Buck Forum. This subject we have discussed and no definitive answer can be arrived at. So, us collectors speculate that Camillus at times used 440A on some of Buck's contract models made from 75-80. This is the most I'll go out on a limb with this subject and still no one can prove it. Not even respected Camillus employees. DM
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I stand corrected. Thanks David.
 
I wish we knew the answer to that. I remember the Buck Case wars when I was young. The Buck stainless held an edge better than the Case stainless (Case used 420J or something). I always thought Buck used a good heat treated 440A, which can get pretty hard, from what I understand, and hold up to serious use. But I also wondered if some of those older Buck had 440C.
 
I have a Camillus large pattern trapper knife and the package insert says the blade is "440 stainless" with no further designation.

David Martin said:
Most of Buck's slip-lock models were brought in house with their new plant in El Cajon in about 1981. Thus, the Camillus contract was dissolved. A few left over parts knives surface from the 80's. These knives through the 80's at Buck's plant will have 425M steel. Then these models changed steel again in 1994 to 420HC. All knives made since will have this steel. Even Camillus models. DM
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I think you are a little off here David. Buck brought the 4 most popular models (301, 303, 305, 309) in house late 1985. Those models made by Buck but without date codes are rare but are out there, I have several. All the other models were continued to be supplied by Camillus well into the 90's. I have a 307 Wrangler (and have seen others) in a 4 color style box which came in use late 2001. Admittedly, those knives may have been using up old stock. I suspect Buck and Camillus had a business relationship right up close to the end.

Here is a list of the more common Camillus contract knives and the last year they were in the Buck catalog.
I'm sure many lingered on store shelves long after they were gone from the catalog....
317 Trailblazer 1989
315 Yachtsman 1998
307 Wrangler 1998
319 Rancher 1991
311 Trapper 1990
313 Muskrat 1998
321 Bird knife 1991
 
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Many years ago I called Camillus and asked this very question, and was told "Probably 440A, but honestly, it could have been whatever similar steel we could get the cheapest at the time"

:)
 
Ok, thanks Sky & Bear. Those are some elements of it the way it filtered down. Where did you obtain the model number 333? The number it's self? As the box nor the knife holds that number? I'll modify my writing. Some knives have 440A steel. We don't know if this was a 'regular' offering. Nor how many. Thanks for this additional info.. DM
 
David, you caught my typo and I edited it out. The 333 is the California Toothpick and the 334 is the Millenium Trapper.
Here is a list of some of the late 1990's Camillus knives I think were exclusive to Smoky Mountain.

322 Congress 1995
329 Freedom Trapper
331/332 Barlows 1999
333 California Toothpick
334 Millenium Trapper 2000
 
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TAH, were not so sure you're off track. 'SOME' knives got 440A, --- we don't know how many or which ones. Nor can we determine this by look. DM
 
David, your post was more responsible than mine. I was thinking, that it had been confirmed, that Camillus used 440A.
 
I have a copy of the S-card for the Buck 301 that was made by Camillus. The card is dated 78/3 and states that the blades are 440A steel.
 
Bert, thanks for clearing this up. It looks like your model from the card called for 1095 steel. To have one of those cards is a weighty find. Thanks, ed for this information as well. This substantiates that 440A steel was used at least for that time. DM
 
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Yes, secret card. I first heard of the term S-card from the poster of the cards on the Camillus area of the forum. The card number for the 301 was S-2389.
 
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