Camillus in trouble

You've kinda out-whined just about every Union-supporting, anti-knife, pacifist, whiney Special Interest Group I can think of.

It must be the Union supporting, anti-knife, pacifist, whiney Special Interest Groups that conspired to make Camillus' product lineup completely lackluster and uninteresting. :rolleyes:
 
Instead of trying the dodge tactic why don't you try to refute the facts.

I'm sure there are plenty of people here who can find plenty of rugged traditional, and newer designs from Camillus they like, so let's dismiss your false premise about Camillus having nothing worthy to sell.

Now give us the facts Mr. Intelligencia.:jerkit:
 
Its sad that Camillus may go the way of Schrade, but it was short sightedness that did it to them.

They( the ones in charge of Camillus) should be asking and investigating why Case and Queen are enjoying such a good popularity. Case figured out what a large part of the knife buying public wanted, so they make it.

Like Schrade in their final years, some of the quality of the finished Camillus knives really was bad. They need to invest in some new tools and raise the Q.A.

Schrade went under making 15.95 knives. Case is thriving on making 40.00 dollar knives. Now Camillus is foundering. There comes a time to look at the sucsessful guy and do what he's doing.
 
jackknife said:
Its sad that Camillus may go the way of Schrade, but it was short sightedness that did it to them.

They( the ones in charge of Camillus) should be asking and investigating why Case and Queen are enjoying such a good popularity. Case figured out what a large part of the knife buying public wanted, so they make it.
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Let me come to their defense a little. Camillus is (or was) primarily an OEM manufacturer. The majority of their production had other people's brands on it - Remington, Cold Steel, Boy Scouts, Buckmasters etc. etc. Camillus made what those companies contracted with them to make. A fairly small part of their business actually carried their own brand.

The problem, of course, is that the Asians do OEM manufacturing cheaper so Camillus couldn't compete effectively with that. About 5 years ago they started working on their own brand. They started developing some modern products such as the CUDA line. If you haven't use the CUDA knives or the OVB products then you haven't seen the best that Camillus was capable of producing. Some of them were really pretty nice. The problem is that they were having to build a brand from scratch and they were losing the OEM business faster than they could build the brand. I don't know who could have managed that very effectively? I know I wouldn't relish the challenge.

Chinese knife production in the mainstream products is relatively new, remember. 7 or 8 years ago we bought mostly American, European and Japanese knives - even at the low end. The change happened quite fast. I remember at that time when CRKT was astounding everybody in the industry by teaching the Taiwanese how to make knives. It worked, to say the least.

Case has an established brand that is known to every pocket knife user in the U.S. They specialize in catering to a large group of collectors that support the brand. Camillus wasn't in that business and never had such support since it made knives for other people and other people's brands. Comparing them isn't fair. They couldn't just snap their fingers and do what Case does.

Queen is simply tiny. You wouldn't compare them to Either Case or Camillus which are on the large side of U.S. knife manufacturers. Queen runs like a small business because it can because it is. It can change things on a dime. That's just the nature of size in business. That comparison isn't valid either.

The case you make against Camillus might be made appropriately against Schrade. Camillus is a different animal.

You could say that they should have seen what was coming 10 years ago but nobody else did so there isn't any particular reason they should have.

I've already posted above what I think Camillus could do to survive. I might be wrong. They may have a better solution. Hopefully there is a solution and they will overcome the trouble and survive. We can only hope.
 
i hate to be negative but whoever was/is at fault camillus is done, i would be shocked if they came back at this point and produced knives in the U.S.
it's just a shame to see another old line knife company fold. as far as quality goes i've bought 3 in the last year and the fit and finish was pretty darn good, certainly in line with the price. later,ahgar
 
Its interesting that in the 1970's when I started collecting knives, it seemed that Camillus was in many many hardware stores, way more than Schrade or so it seemed. Camillus sold a basic line of delrin handled slipjoints and seemed to do pretty well in the small mom and pop hardware stores. Kabar was also well represented, and starting in the mid to late 70's, the Kabar knives were made by Camillus.

That all seemed to dissolve in the 80's...it seemed as though the entire distribution network fizzled out. Kabar continued to be a force and that probably helped Camillus out until the late 90's when Alcas bought the Kabar brand a nd discontinued the traditional slipjoints.
 
Also, the recent SEARS Craftsman slipjoints with the laminated rosewood scales were made by Camillus. Last year SEARS suddenly discontinued the Craftsman slipjoint line.
 
Knife Outlet said:
Let me come to their defense a little. Camillus is (or was) primarily an OEM manufacturer. The majority of their production had other people's brands on it - Remington, Cold Steel, Boy Scouts, Buckmasters etc. etc. Camillus made what those companies contracted with them to make. A fairly small part of their business actually carried their own brand.

The problem, of course, is that the Asians do OEM manufacturing cheaper so Camillus couldn't compete effectively with that. About 5 years ago they started working on their own brand. They started developing some modern products such as the CUDA line. If you haven't use the CUDA knives or the OVB products then you haven't seen the best that Camillus was capable of producing. Some of them were really pretty nice. The problem is that they were having to build a brand from scratch and they were losing the OEM business faster than they could build the brand. I don't know who could have managed that very effectively? I know I wouldn't relish the challenge.

Chinese knife production in the mainstream products is relatively new, remember. 7 or 8 years ago we bought mostly American, European and Japanese knives - even at the low end. The change happened quite fast. I remember at that time when CRKT was astounding everybody in the industry by teaching the Taiwanese how to make knives. It worked, to say the least.

Case has an established brand that is known to every pocket knife user in the U.S. They specialize in catering to a large group of collectors that support the brand. Camillus wasn't in that business and never had such support since it made knives for other people and other people's brands. Comparing them isn't fair. They couldn't just snap their fingers and do what Case does.

Queen is simply tiny. You wouldn't compare them to Either Case or Camillus which are on the large side of U.S. knife manufacturers. Queen runs like a small business because it can because it is. It can change things on a dime. That's just the nature of size in business. That comparison isn't valid either.

The case you make against Camillus might be made appropriately against Schrade. Camillus is a different animal.

You could say that they should have seen what was coming 10 years ago but nobody else did so there isn't any particular reason they should have.

I've already posted above what I think Camillus could do to survive. I might be wrong. They may have a better solution. Hopefully there is a solution and they will overcome the trouble and survive. We can only hope.
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What about Ontario Knives? - (including Queen which I see you mentioned). Ontario seems to be doing well.
 
Oldtools said:
Instead of trying the dodge tactic why don't you try to refute the facts.

I'm sure there are plenty of people here who can find plenty of rugged traditional, and newer designs from Camillus they like, so let's dismiss your false premise about Camillus having nothing worthy to sell.
Click to expand...


I think Camillus has stuff that's worthy to sell, but not a wide enough selection.

The Beckers, Terzuola CQB1, the 2 or 3 assisted openers & EDC they mfg overseas, the Arclite & the big Darrel Ralph folder, and that's about it.

(Don't know if they're still making Western or slipjoints, and even if they are - I don't know where you'd find anyone selling them.)

And at each price point, except maybe the Beckers, there's a LOT of attractive, high quality competition. Look at Queen, for example - went to D2for their slipjoint blades, recently began offering curly maple scales...came out with the Mountain Man in stag...

and, they run an ad now and then.
 
Where Camillus has gone wrong, as did Schrade before them, was to forget their audience. Schrade's was easy: traditional knife fans, the lovers of classic carbon steel, staglon and sawcut delrin. I'd wager their sales started dropping when they began trying to shift; the Cliphanger is a prime example. Worse still was starting to make Old Timers in stainless, without the usual markings.

Camillus' audience is a bit different, but the problem is the same. Traditional fans like Camillus' slipjoints, but fewer are made. Tactical fans like their more flashy models, but even those aren't very common.

I'd say Camillus can be saved. It can happen.

How?

It'll come on the backs of two strange bedfellows, 1095 and titanium.

Bring back the basic carbon knives we all grew up with, and the tacticals that people like. Take those lines, and go from there. I'd take a 1095 Camillus 29 in a second, and I know people who would love a chance at a well-executed tactical.
 
I wonder why they discontinued those CUDAs with the sliding button opening system. See I don't even know what it's called. However, from what I hear and read it almost seems like they built a better moustrap to rival the thumbstud and opening hole mechanisms. Those CUDAs still sell for a premium on ebay, and I'm sure they still own the patent. Seems there would be more than enough demand, even priced to compete with Spyderco Manix, BM 710, etc etc.
 
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