Camillus Pilot Survival Knife

I used one as an Army Paratrooper for several years. It was basically the standard fixed blade that we could obtain through supply. Years later, mine was damaged on a climbing trip up to the Black Hills. We were throwing it at a target and after about 100 throws, it bent at the tang. I thought it was a good knife for the price.
 
Collecter, I was looking at that F1 knife, it sure looks nice but I dont think it chops that well, however I continued to look thru Fällknivens products and found the black version of the S1 with kydex sheat, that looks like a very good knife but its not that far from $100 more expensive than the Camillus knife, but im sure you get what you pay for.
 
Have you checked out the Becker Crewman or the Companion.
They are tough as prybars while still having excellent chopping and cutting performance in the blade size your looking for. Cheap too
 
The S-1 is not a good chopper. I bought one thinking it was going to be good all-purpose knife but it didn't perform as well as my Kabar in chopping.

It does make a better pry bar than the Kabar but I do not use any knife as a pry bar so this is not a consideration for me.

If you need a knife that can chop and be used as a pry bar, the Fallkniven A1 is the better fit but this is far more expensive than a Camillus USMC knife!

If you're going to spend the $120 on the A1 I'd recommend buying one F-1 for $70.00 to carry on your webbing and another $30.00 on the Camillus USMC to tuck in your rucksack for when you really need to chop something.

Unless you are going into an area that has forests like in Canada or Alaska you'll find that chopping is not so important. Here in Southern California, I have not had any need to chop anything on any wilderness adventure that I had in the last 4 years!

When I go to Canada for hunting I'm almost always chopping something with my Kabar.

If chopping is important I'd recommend a 7" blade. Two of the best values for their performance are the BK-7 and the USMC knife (Kabar or Camillus).

There is a reason why the 7" blade has been used the military for so long...it's a good length for a lot of chores.

The only advantage I can see with the 5" blade is the ability to carry it on your webbing on your chest, other than that it has limits to how well it performs especially against the BK-7, Kabar or Camillus USMC knives.

If I really was limited to a blade shorter than 7" and cost was a factor I'd still spend the $70.00 on the F1.

Collecter
 
I don't think the pilot survival knife is only 5" long because the military found that the perfect size for a pilot to use to extract himself from his downed aircraft, or live off the land once down. In fact the original PSK's were 6" long, and were subsequently shortened. Their length is determined by their ease and comfort of carry in the aircraft. Most pilots would rather have a longer blade when the need arises, but not until, since a larger knife is harder to carry with all the other things a pilot must strap on and live with in cramped quarters.
 
A true "survival" knife are by my definition a knife thats not really good at anything but can handle most (if not all) situations in the forest. It can chop but if you need a great chopper youll have to carry a machete in your pack, it can do smaller tasks but a razor sharp Mora would have done it better etc. In short it will have to be able to coup with alot of situation, its largest pro is that it doesnt have any real cons, it can do everything but its not particulary good at anything.
 
Howdy BillyYank! Welcome to Bladeforums.

Here's a couple of quick observations. Just my $0.02 tonight:

1. You may want to wait until you are in the military to see if the unit you are stationed with has any restrictions on the knife you may (or may not) carry. Some units have limits on blades. The Pilot Survival Knife you are looking at will *PROBABLY* be short enough to pass muster for size restrictions, but the unit regs will be the judge of that. Once you know the limitations imposed by your unit, you can then order a knife online that will meet the criteria.

2. As with researching any knife purchase, there are a few questions that can be asked to guide and limit the search:
- "How much money am I willing to spend?"
This will eliminate researching knives that are simply too expensive for current funds. As you noted, to a degree you do get what you pay for. However, careful searching can help maximize the amount of "bang for the buck" you get in your knife purchase and keep you from paying more than necessary for your blade of choice. Asking for opinions here on the forums is a good start. :) Spending time online searching the web for info & prices will give you a decent feel for what is out there and how much to pay for it.
- "What are the jobs this knife absolutely has to do without failure or gross damage?"
This establishes the minimum level of performance the knife will have to provide. If a knife gives any indication whatsoever that it can't meet your minimum job list, it's taken out of consideration. What those minimum jobs are for you will depend on your own circumstances and comfort level. Some folks feel well-equipped with only a Swiss Army Knife for an extended hiking trip, while others prefer to carry several full-size fixed blades for a day hike. Different strokes for different folks, y'know.
- How much maintenance or sharpening while using it will this particular knife require?
This is to insure that your blade of choice is forgiving of your time, balanced against the performance capability of the blade. In spite of the amount of "hurry up and wait" that happens in the military, you may want a knife that both performs well & long and lives easily with minimal care & cleaning in grungy conditions in case you wind up in the field under harsh conditions. If absolute performance is your most important feature, non-stainless high-carbon steels may well be your choice. If remaining maintenance-free is more important to you, then stainless is the way to go. IMHO the stainless steels that seem to provide decent performance, sharpenability, and corrosion resistance these days are 440C (cheaper) and S30V (no so cheaper ;) ). I would have included VG-10 but IME it sharpens less easily than 440C.
- How well does the handle fit my hand?
This is a huge consideration that all too often gets overlooked. The handle is the interface between the blade and the human user. A poorly fitting handle design (which is a VERY subjective & personal aspect of the knife) can make using even a very strong & sharp blade torture. OTOH a very comfortable handle will make you feel better about using a blade that may be less than optimal. I very strongly recommend that you go to a local cutlery store or knife show and handle knives from as many manufacturers and makers as you can (no matter what their price) just to find out which handle style feels the best to *YOUR* particular hand. Once you've found your favorite handle style, keep it in mind while shopping.
- How well-constructed is the sheath for my purposes?
This is another oft-overlooked aspect of a knife. The sheath is the other user-interface component of the system. Having a well-fitting, secure sheath for your knife helps insure that you will have the knife with you when you need it. If silent deployment of your blade is important, leather will probably be your material of choice. If wet conditions are expected, kydex/concealex and/or cordura may well get the nod. Will the sheath need to be jump qualified? Will the sheath need the ability to move easily from your belt to a pack or vehicle? How will the sheath/knife combo ride when you have on the rest of your gear? Does the sheath/knife combo allow easy getting in/out of vehicles without catching on seatbelts, doors, steering wheel, etc? What is your preferred method of carry: On your thigh? Lo-ride on the belt? Hi-ride on the belt? Under-arm? SOB or a Dundee rig on the back? and so on.

... and finally:

- What is my life worth to me?
If this is a knife that you think will ever be used for absolute life support, either in combat or other survival situations, you need to establish for yourself how much performance you are willing to compromise away for any other reason, particularly trying to save money by buying a cheaper knife. In such a consideration, my personal opinion is to buy as much knife as you can possibly afford, then a little bit more.

Stay safe, -- Greg --
 
That was a very well written reply with alot of important aspects.

Iam already in the armed forces and therefor I have a pretty good idea what type of knife iam looking for. The sq leader have said that he dont want anyone to come with a knife (read sword) that reaches
down to the knee. Besides that he has to approve the knife before we can carry non-issue knives. The non-issue knives that dominates are the Fällkniven A1 , Coldsteel SRK and some Camillus/Ka-Bar USMC knives.
In my opinion these knives are either alittle too long or alittle to heavy or both. The Pilot survivalknife
looks heavy with that nut thing on the back but I havent hold it so I cant tell. One thing that I know is a downside
is the leather sheat, but I will construct another one so that wont be an issue.


What is your life worth to you? well at first you buy a rugged and tough knife with no real weaknesses, like the AFSK.
If you end up in an emergency situation and you only have one knife to depend on, you will think twice before bending too
much no matter what you have in your hand, if its a AFSK or an A1 or SRK. Sure the A1 have a pretty thick blade so you might
be able to bend alittle more with it than with and AFSK but you dont want to risk to break your knife and therefor you will
not bend as much as you can.
 
Billy, since you are already in the military, you might go ahead and consider the S1 or F1 (from Fallkniven). Since you are looking at the AFSK, you might be interested that those two knives from Fallkniven were approved by the Naval Air Warfare Center for carry by naval aviators (as in INSTEAD of the AFSK). While I cannot absolutely confirm that, because I didn't do the testing, I can say that NAWC does exist, and does do that type of testing. I would hope that Fallkniven would not advertise such a blatant lie.
 
Hi Billy Yank,


It would probably be a good idea to handle as many of the knives suggested before making your pick.


A few more you might want to take a look at -


- Buck Nighthawk.

- Camillus Black Ops CQB3 and 4.

- Ontario RAT7.



Good luck with your search.




- Frank
 
If I can add a choice, it would be a blackjack grunt, available at a honest price at
http://www.newgraham.com/warner.htm

5,5 inches of AUS8 steel with a versatile/utility geometry, and which does not weight like an anvil :D
I would have adviced the Spyderco Perrin FB04 too, but it's in the upper price category, although this does not prevent you from taking a look at it ;) .
Might look at the CRKT M60 tanto CE too...
Plenty of choice!
 
Well, here is what I know from personal experience for what it may be worth to you. I am currently in the Army and at one time was stationed in Alaska. While there, I had the privilage of attending the USAF Arctic Survival School. The school issued each of us an old previously and very well used pilot's survival knife. We used them hard and for every task that one can dream up. We used them to chop saplings for shelter construction, cut cloth, cut string, cut safety wire for snares, break up ice, and skin small game. We used them to chop down good size spruce trees with the aid of a baton, to split firewood using a baton, and then to make kindling and tinder to start fires. Like I said pretty hard use. One of the knives issued out had a slight bend due to some previous unknown abuse, but was still very usable. The blades were thick and would have been sharper with some reprofiling. The saw on the back was of little value for cutting wood, but it was designed to cut aircraft sheetmetal to help extract oneself from a downed airframe. I did not have the opportunity to test it on aircraft sheetmetal. My conclusions were that the knife was more than tuff enough to do anything that one could realisticly ask of a knife, the steel was very good, the edge normally needs reprofiling initially, it holds a good edge, and resharpens pretty easily. For particular tasks, better knives exist, but the pilot's survival knife is an excellent general purpose tool especially for its size and price.

Just my experiences,
Houdini
 
If it were me I would spring for the $75.00 give or take a few dollars for a Fallkniven S1 Forest Knife.Size is in the same realm as the Air Force survival knife.I believe around 5 inch blade of VG-10 Steel,so corrosion should never be an issue as well as available in black coating for subdued look.The handle is way more comfortable than the Pilot knife.Has exposed tang for hammering.The blade is more stout then the Pilot knife but has a good edge.Sheaths come in three different types when I had ordered mine,Kydex,leather,or Courdura(spelling?)Great knife at a fair price,if you lose or damage not a big lose money wise,but better blade than a Kabar or pilot knife to survive on imho.Good Luck
 
Nostalgia might well influence my post here, as I carried such a knife in VietNam. I liked it, although I didn't have even a fraction of the knife knowledge as I do now, and there were not so many choices to make in those days anyway.

Got mine in a trade with a pilot. Gave him a GI machete (I was a combat enginner, we had plenty of them) and an extra Gov't .45 I had stashed away, for his knife and a S&W .38 revolver. Both tools served me well.

BillyYank, I've sent you an email... make sure and reply, if you would be so kind.

Phil
 
If you choose the AFSK, be sure to get the Camillus version, and not the one made by Ontario. In my experience both Camillus and Kabar make better quality knives than Ontario, even though Ontario has the government contract. I have a Karbar Marine Combat, Camillus Marine Combat, and the Ontario Marine Combat knife. All are in as new, unused condition, but the guard on the Ontario is loose and rattles.

By the way, if you look at the New Graham site with that link above, also take a look at the Blackjack Trailguide III and Blackjack Classic 5's that are advertised. These are sturdy knives similar in size and configuration to the AFSK. I personally do not care for the Kabar Short knives. It is not because of the shorter blades, but because the whole knife is shrunk down in size. In particular the guards are too small for my tastes.
 
From my own personal experience the Camillus is a fine work horse of a knife. I recently spent 13 months in the amazon conducting research. I lived in a small indigenous community out in the middle of no where. I used that knife for Every possible task you can imagine, cut small branches, dig, pry, open cans, cook, carve, clean game. There was nothing that little knife couldn't do. At the end of my time down there the blade showed no signs of rust, no pitting, and some wear in the handle. All the moisture, sweat, Deet, and sunblock took its toll. Considering the price I paid (~$22) and the abuse I put it through I am surprised that it is still looking as good as it does. I should remark it's one of the few things that I brought down there with me that I actually returned with. Nothing lasts too long out in the forest, and the few things that do... well they never really come out looking anything like the way they did when you went in.
 
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