camp knife question

Daniel Koster

Daniel Koster

www.kosterknives.com
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 18, 2001
Messages
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I have a customer who's interested in a large camp/bush knife. No big deal, except he wants it made of S30V (or some other stainless). Cost wasn't a concern for him, so I said I'd look into it.

But, I can't find any information on how S30V performs in a long knife...this one will have a 15" blade with a hand-and-a-half handle (probably 7" or so, hidden tang).

He insists he is going to use it, so I want to make sure it's going to last.

I've considered D2 instead...but don't want to insist on it until I learn more about S30V in long blades. My concern is whether or not S30V will chip, and also, if the tang will be tough enough not to break. Thickness will be 1/4", by the way, with distal taper in the blade. (Yes, I'm nuts....:rolleyes: )



Any help/guidance?
 
i bet you get all sorts of oppinions on this one.
mine is a good working knife should be carbon steel.
i was always old if a knife won't rust its not worth having.
of course i always believe everything anyone tells me too,,,, so,,,
 
Chris Reeve has chosen it for his Green Beret knife so it should be ok.The myths of "brittle " stainless steel always show up despite the many types of stainless and many heat treatments.
 
thanks, Scott. I would love to use 3V. I would love to make it from 5160. But at the end of the day, the $$$ talks...and the customer wants stainless.
 
Well, I guess I'll chime in, since this is a discussion forum and all.
I'm of the opinion that a carbon steel would be better for shock resistance, and have been wanting to try out CPM-3V for a long time now.

I'm not gonna say S30V can't make a knife that would be "good enough" for your customer, because it very well could depending on how he wants to use it. If he wants the mass of a beefy convex ground blade for chopping power, and plans to only ever use it on clear wood and such, he will probably be quite happy with it.

But if he wants the edge thin, light & quick blade, and might hit a rock when chopping, then there's a darn good chance he will be disappointed with the stainless.

I have learned not to immediately write off the use of stainless in big blades, because there are apparently several folks who do "well enough" with them. But it's my firm believe that a shock resistant hi carbon will do everything the stainless does, and do it much better, except for the rusting part of course. Several folks have described S30V as a "tough steel", and they may be right when compared to other stainlesses, but even the folks who make the stuff say other steels are 3 or 4 times tougher. Ain't no way around that.

I was happy with my big ATS-34 knife, right up until it broke.
 
whats wrong with 0-1? Just kidding :D :D
TRy it.........if he decides to pay the cost to get it and make it worth the time.
 
From everything I've heard about it, it's one of the toughest of the stainless steels. If he wants a stainless camp knife then S30V would be the best bet.
 
Sorry to butt in guys but I use ATS 34 and Possums comments about ATS 34 is a bit alarming.
Possum, how did the knife break, what were you doing with it and where did it break? At the handle? Also, do know how hard the blade was? I am not trying to catch you out sir, this is just a concern for me as this is my steel of choice and if there is a serious flaw I need to know about it. Your comments would be appreciated.
Thanks,

Mike
 
CPMS30V should make a great camp knife using the right edge geometry.

D2, in my opinion, would be a poor choice since it's a lot more brittle and the edge would probably chip.

S30V is 4 times tougher than ATS34 in transverse rupture strength, and ATS34 ain't bad.

Be sure to charge extra for the extra grinding belts you'll use. :eek:
 
Once again I butt in.
Possum was kind enough to e-mail me about how his knife met it's demise.

I have a question for Don now, or any other opinions will be welcome. Please :foot: indulge me and do not send me to the search area guys, sometimes a direct answer to a specific question is more helpful.
Don, what is the "correct geometry" for a camping knife as opposed to say, carving knives and chopping knives please. :o

Mike
 
Mike,
The geomentry will be based on the thickness of the stock used, the width of the blade and how thick the edge is. Flat grinding a 1.5" to 1.875" blade from 3/16" stock, left .022 to .030 at the edge is always good for me. I dont get that exact on large camp knives but somewhere in that region is good.
 
Woowie! that's a loaded question, and you'll get lots of different opinions on that, too.

In my opinion, and I know others will disagree, if the blade's going to be longer than about 7", I'd use a flat grind all the way to top of the spine, blade thickness 5/32" to no more than 1/4"depending on the length, an edge thickness of around .030" before grinding the actual cutting edge, and a slightly convex final edge.

A lot depends on the actual length of the blade and the blade width. Some people prefer to have the blade not be so heavy it overpowers the handle leverage. For heavy chopping, I'd make the blade balance a little forward of the bolsters. for ordinary usage I like to have the knife balance on my index finger at or about the guard or bolsters.
 
Don - your advice is spot on and exactly how I plan to make this camp knife.

:thumbup:
 
Thanks for the replies and advice "blgoode" and Don. You gents have clearly been there and done that.
I visited both your websites and I am impressed with your work, you both make great knives.
According to the test you did with the 01 blade, blgoode, you clearly have done some testing! :) and that is worth a thousand words.

Sorry if I put you guys on the spot, not my intention, I am just trying to learn, though as I posted that one I got the feeling that I might have set you up. :foot:

I know there are so many opinions about these things but surely the basics remain the same and if the tool does the job......enough said.
Thanks again for the sound advice.
Don, you look just like your grandad :D :D :D good one sir!

Mike
 
Daniel, after reading your first post,15" blade and hidden tang, if it were me I'd use a full tang in order to add more weight to the handle. The knife will be stronger that way too.

Mike, I am my grandfather. :rolleyes:
 
Well, since the subject has turned to balance, I guess I'll weigh in with a few thoughts.

Just because the knife balances at the guard, or slightly ahead, does not mean the knife is "balanced". Now, I'll certainly give Don the benefit of the doubt, and say he probably achieves what he wants with the balance, but the balance point is a side result of that; not the end goal.

On a knife this big designed for chopping, you don't want to end up with the mass distributed equally like a crowbar. You will still need some tapers out on the blade. I think a full tang would be a good way to go, BUT you can't just leave all that mass in the handle. A good way to do it would be to drill several large holes from the middle of the tang and guard area, and leave all the material at the butt. (and probably even add some counterweight at the butt.) This will add to the cutting power near the tip, and also make it less fatigueing in use at the same time.

This subject deserves a whole book unto itself, so I'll just quit with this for now, but if you're still curious and open minded, just ask.
 
Don Robinson said:
In my opinion, and I know others will disagree, if the blade's going to be longer than about 7", I'd use a flat grind all the way to top of the spine, blade thickness 5/32" to no more than 1/4"depending on the length, an edge thickness of around .030" before grinding the actual cutting edge, and a slightly convex final edge.
Click to expand...

Not trying to contradict Don here, but I'll throw out some food for thought. The knife I mentioned was a bit less than 2" wide, and flat ground all the way to the spine, as he mentioned. The edge on my blade ended up* probably almost twice as thick before grinding the convexed edge bevel.

It still wasn't nearly strong enough.

I used the knife hard for well over a year, and there just wasn't enough strength supporting the edge. For instance, I used it one time to chop the legs off a deer for butchering, and a huge scallop was chipped out past the edge bevel. (it had no problems cutting off the head though. the leg bones are harder.) The notch was around 3 or 4mm deep, and almost a centimeter long, as I recall.

I would cast my vote for a full convex grind with a wide swedge or false edge on the spine to reduce/counteract the weight, since the steel is just not gonna be as tough.

*I said it "ended up" at this thickness, because first I tried even thinner. The first time I used it to cut some saplings, huge scallops broke clean off all along the edge, and there were lots of ripples in the parts that didn't actually break. I had to regrind the edge to remove all the chips and ripples, (until I reached thicker steel) so I would definietly not go any thinner on a knife used in the manner I use mine.
 
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