camp knife question

the possum said:
Well, since the subject has turned to balance, I guess I'll weigh in with a few thoughts.


On a knife this big designed for chopping, you don't want to end up with the mass distributed equally like a crowbar. You will still need some tapers out on the blade. I think a full tang would be a good way to go, BUT you can't just leave all that mass in the handle. A good way to do it would be to drill several large holes from the middle of the tang and guard area, and leave all the material at the butt. (and probably even add some counterweight at the butt.) This will add to the cutting power near the tip, and also make it less fatigueing in use at the same time.

This subject deserves a whole book unto itself, so I'll just quit with this for now, but if you're still curious and open minded, just ask.
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I agree wholeheatedly with this. I drill the holes after I've roughed out the guard and scales. I mount all the rough furniture, then drill the lightening holes to get the balance where I want.

With a 15" blade, though, as you say it needs tapering and lightening at the tip. Even so, the weight of the blade is probably going to overpower the handle no matter what.
 
Thanks for chiming in again, Don. I've got a strong feeling Dan aready knows the trick with drilling holes in the tang, but thought it could stand a little clarification in case a newbie was reading.

Don Robinson said:
Even so, the weight of the blade is probably going to overpower the handle no matter what.
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Would you mind elaborating on this? I'm not sure what you mean by "overpowering the handle".
 
According to CPM itself, Airdi/Aisi D2 tool steel is actually as resistant to chipping than it's own S30V.
What will make or break the deal, I bet, is the fact that D2 only takes a bead blasted fisnish well. it won't give you even a good brushed finished, let alone polished or semi polished.

WYK

Don Robinson said:
CPMS30V should make a great camp knife using the right edge geometry.

D2, in my opinion, would be a poor choice since it's a lot more brittle and the edge would probably chip.

S30V is 4 times tougher than ATS34 in transverse rupture strength, and ATS34 ain't bad.

Be sure to charge extra for the extra grinding belts you'll use. :eek:
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I am very interested in this thread. I am making a knife for my grandson out of S30V. He wanted to have a stainless version of his A2 knife that I made for him. He uses the knife to do some chopping so he wants his new knife to have simular performance. The knife is profiled, handle drilled, and I just started to grind the blade bevels. I thought that S30V was almost as tough as A2. I WAS WRONG! I wanted to know what Crucible had to say, so I called them. I spoke to Bruce Devita and he refered me to Ed Tarney. Ed informed me that, although Crucible wanted to make a stainless version of 3V, CPM S30V doesn't even come close to 3V. Crucible's S30V is only a little tougher than D2. The Charpy values at HRC 59 - 60 are as follows: D2 about 22-23, S30V about 25, and A2 about 40 - 41. I don't have the values for 154CM. CPM 3V is 50 - 60 C notch value, so 3V is about twice the toughness of S30V at the same hardness. (These values may not match real world use.)
Dan, I just received this info and I am dissapointed that this knife, that I am making, may not hold up to the anticipated use. Stainless steel types just cannot compete with carbon steel types in rough use. I may switch to 3V and maybe you should re-think your offering to your customer to make a stainless camp knife.
 
Don Powell said:
I am very interested in this thread. I am making a knife for my grandson out of S30V. He wanted to have a stainless version of his A2 knife that I made for him. He uses the knife to do some chopping so he wants his new knife to have simular performance. The knife is profiled, handle drilled, and I just started to grind the blade bevels. I thought that S30V was almost as tough as A2. I WAS WRONG! I wanted to know what Crucible had to say, so I called them. I spoke to Bruce Devita and he refered me to Ed Tarney. Ed informed me that, although Crucible wanted to make a stainless version of 3V, CPM S30V doesn't even come close to 3V. Crucible's S30V is only a little tougher than D2. The Charpy values at HRC 59 - 60 are as follows: D2 about 22-23, S30V about 25, and A2 about 40 - 41. I don't have the values for 154CM. CPM 3V is 50 - 60 C notch value, so 3V is about twice the toughness of S30V at the same hardness. (These values may not match real world use.)
Dan, I just received this info and I am dissapointed that this knife, that I am making, may not hold up to the anticipated use. Stainless steel types just cannot compete with carbon steel types in rough use. I may switch to 3V and maybe you should re-think your offering to your customer to make a stainless camp knife.
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Don, you're correct. when I first replied I didn't notice that the blade was to be 15" long.

A tool that long should be made of high carbon steel or A2, as you say.

For a shorter knife, let's say around 5 to 7 inches in blade length, CPM S30V would perform well and hold an edge longer.

A2 would hold an edge well, but would be heavy. That's why a machete (which this knife is, evidently) is made of thin carbon steel.
 
Don and Don....(now how often do I get to say that...:D)


This is what I needed to hear. I have been in contact with the customer and he has agreed that S30V may not be the right choice. We are pursuing some nice carbon steels.

Top on my list right now is that 1.25" diameter bar of 5160 I got from Dan Gray (John Deere stuff). The blades I have made from that were outstanding.
 
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