Camp knife questions - stock thickness? grind?

TPVT

TPVT

Joined
Feb 14, 2012
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hi all.
i have been working on a new camp(y) type knife. i've been discussing it with John for a little while now, and i just sent him a cutout.

i'll tell you what...i have flip-flopped about a thousand times about stock thickness and type of grind i want on it.

i should mention that i expect to be using this knife for car-camping and potentially in the kitchen. it will be "my big knife." i wanted some heft to it so it could chop a bit, but i also wanted it to slice-and-dice. after bouncing my thoughts off John, i decided a good compromise was a 5/32" thickness with a full height convex grind.

but, as i said...i continue to second guess myself. i mean, realistically speaking, how much will i actually use this knife to chop? if i am being honest with myself...probably not a ton. so, then i started thinking that 1/8" might be a better idea, as (all things being equal) that would improve slicing performance. heck, i've even thought of going down to 3/32". Should i have John use a full height convex grind? or, should i have him do a full flat grind?

in summary...i want as much steel removed as possible (up to the spine) so that it can slice. but, i don't want the edge to be so thin that if i do take a chop, i will roll or chip an edge.

(and yes...i know HT is an important factor in edge stability, but i trust John with that. that's why i'm here. ;) )

i have been looking at as many "camp knives" as i could find online to research thickness and grind preferences. 1/8" or 5/32" seems to be the norm. but, not all of them talk about grind. the ones that i have seen lately have been FFG.

this is where you guys come in. and, after all those words, my questions are rather simple. who has experience with camp knives (or larger knives, in general)? and, what is your preference for stock thickness and grind? ... and, why?

thanks all. really looking forward to the responses.

-todd
 
how much your going to chop is the right question I guess, without seeing the design, i'd say 1/8 would also be a good choice, I'm thinking back on that camp knife comparison John re-posted in the forum a while ago, it' seemed to hold it's own and then some, just a thought:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/687445-Camp-Knife-Challenge-Results

I like hawks, hatchets and axes for chopping myself but I'm also a big fan of a "all round" knife, and i think 1/8th lets you chop when you need to and still keeps all the other stuff 9slicing etc) well in hand. But the hikers my biggest knife and I haven't even handled a lot of camp style knives so keep that opinion in perspective :p
 
KYenglish said:
how much your going to chop is the right question I guess, without seeing the design, i'd say 1/8 would also be a good choice, I'm thinking back on that camp knife comparison John re-posted in the forum a while ago, it' seemed to hold it's own and then some, just a thought:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/687445-Camp-Knife-Challenge-Results

I like hawks, hatchets and axes for chopping myself but I'm also a big fan of a "all round" knife, and i think 1/8th lets you chop when you need to and still keeps all the other stuff 9slicing etc) well in hand. But the hikers my biggest knife and I haven't even handled a lot of camp style knives so keep that opinion in perspective :p
Click to expand...

agreed. and, i forgot about that link. thanks Pete! :thumbup:
 
To me, a camp knife is a general purpose tool to handle all manner of "rough work" around camp. Some blades in this style may also work well for kitchen duties as well but, to me, this ability is not a requirement. One of my most used knives that fits the bill for this type of function is the Cold Steel Bushman. I've had two of them since they first came out and they've held up incredibly well to all types of use and abuse. I guess you could use them in a food prep role but I prefer to team the Bushman with a stainless Mora, using the Mora for prep and the Bushman for basically anything else.

If you want an all-arounder that will handle both, keep in mind that the stock thickness and it's ability to slice is also related to the height of the blade (edge to spine). A flat ground blade made from 1/4" stock will slice differently if the blade is 1" high vs. 2". The 1" blade has a more abrupt wedge that tends to split before slice, which may not be as effective for food prep.

If I was going to design something along these lines, I would give up stock thickness (and the associated weight and chopping power) for slicing ability. I personally don't chop with a knife very often and 1/8" thick is plenty strong for batonning and chopping.
 
thanks for the input sean.

i agree about the blade height point. i actually meant to mention that. the new design i just sent John is 2" at its widest point. so, there could be some "sticking" during slicing. i guess that is what i am trying to minimize. i like what you said about using a smaller knife for food prep. that's a good point.

i am just trying to find the best compromise between chopping and slicing, i suppose. but, at the same time, i realize that if i want a chef's knife, i should buy a chef's knife. and, if i want a chopper, i should buy a 1/4" beast (or whatever). just hoping to find a happy medium.

P.S. another detail i left out is that the blade length is about 6".
 
That really is the hard part, balancing one attribute for more or less of another (same with steel hardness vs. ductility vs. flex vs. .......). In the end, what's perfect for me may or may not be for someone else. Just draw something that you think is cool and fits your needs.

One of the things I noticed after getting the two different versions of the Trapline was how a change in stock thickness, grind and even handle material completely changes the feel and even functionality of a design. The flat grind and 1/8" stock used for number one really fit the bill for the original design intent but the thicker stock and saber grind of number two made for a heavy duty field knife that looks and cuts much differently.
 
To me a camp knife isn't a chopper.The shorter blades don't have the mass/momentum to be good choppers IMO.
I mean you can chop a log (3-5") in half with a 6" bladed knife,but you can do it much more efficiently with a longer/heavier blade.

And since you are talking car camping,you can have the best of both worlds..a dedicated chopper & the camp knife.:thumbup:
I'd go with 1/8 & full hight convex at 4-5" for slicing food & light wood processing paired up with a dedicated chopper,be it a big knife,machete or axe.
And truth be told,you don't really need a chopper.You can easily break down 3" branches by stomping on them or whacking 'em over a stump,(my preferred method when feeling lazy in the heat of summer)then splitting the chunks with the camp knife for kindling.
 
I like 5/32" as a mid-weight thickness.
I also think that if you're going with a 2" blade height, full flat or high convex will be plenty thin near the edge to be "slicey" enough.
for example, the BK5 is 3/16" thick at the widest point and it's a slicing fiend.
The important part of the design if this is going to be for food prep is to make sure your knuckles will clear the cutting surface.
Most choppers have a balance point at least 2 fingers in front of the handle, while most slicers have the balance point either at the front of the handle or maybe 1 finger back.
 
mykel m said:
To me a camp knife isn't a chopper.The shorter blades don't have the mass/momentum to be good choppers IMO.
I mean you can chop a log (3-5") in half with a 6" bladed knife,but you can do it much more efficiently with a longer/heavier blade.

And since you are talking car camping,you can have the best of both worlds..a dedicated chopper & the camp knife.:thumbup:
I'd go with 1/8 & full hight convex at 4-5" for slicing food & light wood processing paired up with a dedicated chopper,be it a big knife,machete or axe.
And truth be told,you don't really need a chopper.You can easily break down 3" branches by stomping on them or whacking 'em over a stump,(my preferred method when feeling lazy in the heat of summer)then splitting the chunks with the camp knife for kindling.
Click to expand...
that's where my brain was heading myke. i mean, if i am just going to bring this knife camping, then i could just as easily bring my hatchet too. i'll be interested to see what this knife turns into. :)

1066vik said:
I like 5/32" as a mid-weight thickness.
I also think that if you're going with a 2" blade height, full flat or high convex will be plenty thin near the edge to be "slicey" enough.
for example, the BK5 is 3/16" thick at the widest point and it's a slicing fiend.
The important part of the design if this is going to be for food prep is to make sure your knuckles will clear the cutting surface.
Most choppers have a balance point at least 2 fingers in front of the handle, while most slicers have the balance point either at the front of the handle or maybe 1 finger back.
Click to expand...
i made sure that the blade edge extends well past the handle for finger clearance. honestly, it looks a lot like a chef's knife. interesting thought on the knife balance. that is something that is really tough to figure with cutouts.

thanks guys.
 
How big is this knife lengthwise and widthwise?

To me length is a limiting factor for chopping. My scrapyard 711 is really the smallest chopper I would use and it's just okay. Under that size I tend to look more for cutting performance while still being strong enough to take a hit from a baton because when you go small, the batonning technique starts to be more effective then chopping.

The width of the blade has a bearing on what thickness and grind I would choose.
 
Shotgun said:
How big is this knife lengthwise and widthwise?

To me length is a limiting factor for chopping. My scrapyard 711 is really the smallest chopper I would use and it's just okay. Under that size I tend to look more for cutting performance while still being strong enough to take a hit from a baton because when you go small, the batonning technique starts to be more effective then chopping.

The width of the blade has a bearing on what thickness and grind I would choose.
Click to expand...

blade length = 6"
blade height = 2" at widest point

thanks Shotgun
 
I'm interested in this thread because this is exactly what I'm shooting for. Being a minimalist I like the idea of having one knife for my kitchen at home that I just put in a sheath and take camping with my EDC and a wood processor(saw/hatchet). So here's my rambling thoughts.

At 2 inches wide you can pretty much do anything. Probably why you can't decide. :D I had the edge thinned on my 711 and at 1.5 inches wide and 1/4 inch thick with a saber grind, it does okay in the kitchen. Tends to wedge carrots apart but otherwise fine. I recently saw a few of Bourdain's tv shows where he went to japan and I noticed all the chefs there were using thick knives. By thick I mean 3/16" or even thicker so don't be too scared to go thick if you want extra strength.

That being said if I were to pick a knife that size I would opt for 1/8" thick. My main use for a knife while camping is batonning kindling(~5% of the time), food prep(~5% of the time), whittling(~10% of the time) and being carried (the other 80% of the time.) So for me I want the lightest knife that can accomodate batonning. I've batonned a lot with 3/32" thick knives and although they do it fine, I don't quite trust them. However I think that's a mental block on my part rather than that thicknesses capability. So for me 1/8" thick is where I'm at currently. Gives the best slicing capability while giving enough strength for batonning. Saber or full is up to what you like the looks of best. Saber won't hurt slicing ability on a 1/8 by 2 inch knife and would give more strength but I don't think it would be necessary.
 
This one was 1/8" x 2".

021-2.jpg
 
oh wow. that looks great John. what's the length? and what did you use for grind on that one (if you don't mind me asking)?
 
I would go with 3/16 stock and a full flat grind. that will cover your slicing and be heavy enough to use it as a camp knife. Just make sure you use a steel that can take the abuse so if you do use it to chop or split/baton it can take it. The maker can tell you what they feel is the best.
 
TPVT said:
oh wow. that looks great John. what's the length? and what did you use for grind on that one (if you don't mind me asking)?
Click to expand...

I believe it was 6 or 7 inches long, I`ll check the pattern tomorrow. It had a scandivex grind.
 
Shotgun said:
I'm interested in this thread because this is exactly what I'm shooting for. Being a minimalist I like the idea of having one knife for my kitchen at home that I just put in a sheath and take camping with my EDC and a wood processor(saw/hatchet). So here's my rambling thoughts.

At 2 inches wide you can pretty much do anything. Probably why you can't decide. :D I had the edge thinned on my 711 and at 1.5 inches wide and 1/4 inch thick with a saber grind, it does okay in the kitchen. Tends to wedge carrots apart but otherwise fine. I recently saw a few of Bourdain's tv shows where he went to japan and I noticed all the chefs there were using thick knives. By thick I mean 3/16" or even thicker so don't be too scared to go thick if you want extra strength.

That being said if I were to pick a knife that size I would opt for 1/8" thick. My main use for a knife while camping is batonning kindling(~5% of the time), food prep(~5% of the time), whittling(~10% of the time) and being carried (the other 80% of the time.) So for me I want the lightest knife that can accomodate batonning. I've batonned a lot with 3/32" thick knives and although they do it fine, I don't quite trust them. However I think that's a mental block on my part rather than that thicknesses capability. So for me 1/8" thick is where I'm at currently. Gives the best slicing capability while giving enough strength for batonning. Saber or full is up to what you like the looks of best. Saber won't hurt slicing ability on a 1/8 by 2 inch knife and would give more strength but I don't think it would be necessary.
Click to expand...

Good food for thought there, thanks for sharing.

JK Knives said:
This one was 1/8" x 2".

021-2.jpg
Click to expand...

oooo, pretty
 
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