Can 1080 be water quenched?

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Completely off topic but do you guys know a way to express a hamon without using ferric chloride. I happened to throw a bit of furnace cement on this knife to see what I could get.

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Quenched in water, you'll probably start to show a quench line just from polishing the knife higher. 1080 won't get a really active hamon like lower maganese steels will, but you will probably get a transition.
 
As to the second temper, Robert (mete) has said before that there is no need for a second temper in 10xx steels. I don't distrust him, but I know that it's not hurting mine to run a second temper and it might just get it over some nose of time at temp that I missed on the first go round. I also temper lower on the first cycle due to variance in ovens, if everything were perfect maybe I'd do things differently.
 
There are a lot of variables to consider on this one - the clay, the actual temp and time at temp, for example. I'm sorry that you lost one.
 
Meh, no biggie. It was knife #3 for me so it just shows me that it doesn't always work out. Lesson learned.

Sad thing is I am out of steel and was hoping to give this knife to my Dad for fathers day. If I order some tomorrow maybe I'll still be able to make him something. Next time I won't mess with hamon stuff and just go for a normal knife.
 
I think the brine might be too much. I use just clean water and never got any cracking.
 
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I make automatic leaf springs out of 1095. I quench in room temperature canola oil, and temper once. I have never had a spring fail.
 
Some of the 1080 out there is not 1080 in that it doesn't have .8 carbon. Admiral calls theirs 1075/1080 and from what I have read and experienced using it a bit, 1070 is probably closer to the truth.
 
This thread is 6 months old. The OP hasn't even logged on in two months.

Cotdt, the purpose of the salt is not to speed up the quench, it is to destabilize vapor jackets, reducing warping and soft spots. Water quenches can be made less drastic by interrupting them. You might try something like: in five seconds, out one second, in five seconds then air cool.
 
cotdt if you're using 1080 then it's a brine quench steel. If you did some basic research then you would already understand what Nathan is saying.

If you're not using 1080 then why even bring the thread up? Oh yeah, to interject your unfounded opinion in yet another dead thread.
 
AcridSaint said:
cotdt if you're using 1080 then it's a brine quench steel. If you did some basic research then you would already understand what Nathan is saying.

If you're not using 1080 then why even bring the thread up? Oh yeah, to interject your unfounded opinion in yet another dead thread.
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When substance is lacking, hey let's resort to sarcasm and pot shots. Post some of your knives AcridSaint. You've been here far longer than me, yet I've never seen you post any of your knives. Why is that?

Yes I know what brine does, and it's a FASTER quench than plain water, because of the reasons Nathan mentioned. A faster quench is one of the things that can cause cracking due to non-uniform heat structure leading to the center of the blade a different volume-change from the surface creating stress. How is this opinion "unfounded"? If you have papers/books showing this to be untrue, then post the link. For the record, I've done about ten knives in 1084 with water quench, never had any cracking issues.
 
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When I do my tempering in the kitchen oven, each time I take the blade out I test it with a file for hardness. You could even use a knife that has a known hardness and compare it to the one your tempering. Test after each cycle how the file bites into the steel until you get something that is not too hard, but not too soft either.
 
cotdt said:
When substance is lacking, hey let's resort to sarcasm and pot shots. Post some of your knives AcridSaint. You've been here far longer than me, yet I've never seen you post any of your knives. Why is that?

Yes I know what brine does, and it's a FASTER quench than plain water, because of the reasons Nathan mentioned. A faster quench is one of the things that can cause cracking due to non-uniform heat structure leading to the center of the blade a different volume-change from the surface creating stress. How is this opinion "unfounded"? If you have papers/books showing this to be untrue, then post the link. For the record, I've done about ten knives in 1084 with water quench, never had any cracking issues.
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I met Cap at the Blade show in Atlanta where he was exhibiting and had the opportunity to handle some of his knives. He is a talented maker, an officer of the North Carolina Knifemakers Guild, and actually a nice fellow (despite his somewhat crusty online persona).

I wish I hadn't made my snide remark, I meant nothing by it.

(BTW, you've been here about as long as he has) Oh crap, was that snide again? *smacks forehead*
 
I believe that Nathan even saw the same knife that I posted on here and won the GLWJ contest with. I must correct him though, I am not an officer in the guild, just a volunteer webmaster which I am likely passing on.

I don't post knives on here often because I don't need cooing approval and I don't need the criticism. I know all sorts of problems I need to work on with my knives, when I can't find any more then I'll ask for some advice. That advice will likely come from some of the many great knife makers that I know personally and already give me input and support. However, since you're a paying member with search capabilities you could use all of your paid-for power to look up the sea of threads that I've started here... all three or so. Two of them will contain knives that I've made. One will be a 1084 blade that was brine quenched. Maybe I'll do some unpacking and dig out another knife to post up here - well a blade anyways. One that warped and cracked when I tried quenching it in water... that one is 1080.

Come down to the Blade show next year, I'll be there with my knives. I'll even let you pick them up and pick them apart.
 
Sorry, I neglected to address the other challenge posed.

Unfortunately, I don't quite understand how you have come to believe that a faster quench in brine will somehow magnify "the center of the blade a different volume-change from the surface creating stress" but uneven cooling due to a vapor jacket will be less of a factor. All of the literature I have read on the subject suggests that you will reduce cracking and distortion by using brine due to this decreased vapor jacket. My own experience with both mediums has reassured me of this. Brine is the improvement to water.

Maybe I can get Matt Gregory or some other rich knifemaker (Matt knows that was a joke) to post relevant excerpts from the Heat Treater's Guide. For now I'll give you a quick tidbit that can be easily verified (emphasis added):

Houghton on Quenching Pg. 13 said:
The detrimental effects of temperature dependence and vapor phase stability can be minimized by:

  • Maintaining the water at a low temperature through effective cooling;

  • Vigorous agitation to disperse the vapor blanket; and

  • The addition of an inorganic salt.
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You guys are all necroposters ;) but I will have to say that brine is better as the salt will form on the blade and kinda explode which messises with the vapor jacket. Sorry about the spelling but I'm using my iPod to post this and don't have q spell checker.
 
JTknives said:
You guys are all necroposters ;) but I will have to say that brine is better as the salt will form on the blade and kinda explode which messises with the vapor jacket. Sorry about the spelling but I'm using my iPod to post this and don't have q spell checker.
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Interrupted quench in brine 2 secs then in oil to finish cooling... Did that for a few 1095 hamon kitchen knife. They cut trough nails.
 
Welcome Goubille. Fill out your profile so we know something about you and where you live.

This thread is15 years old and was a really dumb thread then. It is called necroposting when you resurrect an old dead thread. If you want to discuss the subject, start a new thread and link the old on in your post for reference.

Thread closed.
 
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