Can a non US Citizen carry concealed?

M

Mrbladedude

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Aug 2, 2010
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I have been living in USA for 5 years now. I have a Green Card ( permanent resident card ) and have been living in Virginia for almost 3 years now. I have been trying to get this information for a while now and I was wondering if anyone knew. My local gun shop says i cannot obtain a Concealed Carry Permit unless I am a citizen. The Virginia state police doesn't even seem to know ( or care ) when i called and asked. I called them twice and spoke to 2 different people and they both didn't know. I found this website and if you scroll down you will see this information that I quoted here : http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_ResidentConcealed.shtm

Persons Not Qualified to Obtain a Permit:


An alien other than an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States.


I then called the Circuit Court and asked them and they said I had to do a firearms safety course and then bring my certificate of completion into the office and fill out the paperwork ETC and it will be "Up to the judge if he grants you a CCP".

I then found this information on this site : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States#Shall-Issue


It says that Virginia is a "Shall issue state". If this is the case, why does the judge even have a say in the matter? I should technically just get the thing right?

So if anyone knows about obtaining a CCP for lawful permanent residents, please share your knowledge.

Thanks
 
Code of Virginia Section 18.2-308:

The following persons shall be deemed disqualified from obtaining a permit:

* An alien other than an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States.

That sounds like you can have a CCW.
 
UffDa said:
Code of Virginia Section 18.2-308:

The following persons shall be deemed disqualified from obtaining a permit:

* An alien other than an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States.

That sounds like you can have a CCW.
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Thats what i thought.
 
What you have discovered is that most law enforcement officials are not well versed on the law when it comes to CCW permits. This is true almost everywhere. While I have not done any independent research on VA laws ( I live in NY), based on what is posted here I have the following interpretation:
Yes, by statute you are allowed to have a CCW in VA. Also, in "shall-issue" states the Sheriff or a Judge still has to determine whether there are any reasons not to issue the permit. The only difference with "shall issue" is that if the permit id denied, they must provide, in writing, the reason for the denial and it must be a "qualified" reason under the law. In "may issue" states such as NY, the Sheriffs and Judges have much more latitude as to the decision to deny.

The bottom line is that you probably won't know for sure until you jump through the hoops. If it is denied, at least you will have grounds for an appeal.

BTW: Does anyone know if VA CCW permits apply to weapons other than firearms? Most states, they do not.
 
Mrbladedude said:
I then called the Circuit Court and asked them and they said I had to do a firearms safety course and then bring my certificate of completion into the office and fill out the paperwork ETC and it will be "Up to the judge if he grants you a CCP".
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Apparently the judge has the authority to issue the CCP so the clerk thought you wanted him to do that. He told you exactly what the procedure is.
 
yes :)

well, i mean VA might have some weird localized restrictions, but being a "shall issue" state i seriously doubt it and i know for a fact (resident) aliens are not restricted (federally) due to their non citizen status..... i'm married to one :)
 
I'm sorry, tell me again why we should issue ANY CCW permit to someone who is NOT a US citizen ? I'm just asking a question here. Citizen has some pretty specific meanings in my Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary. Once you become a citzen, then this whole thing becomes a non-issue.
 
TwinStick said:
I'm sorry, tell me again why we should issue ANY CCW permit to someone who is NOT a US citizen ? I'm just asking a question here. Citizen has some pretty specific meanings in my Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary. Once you become a citzen, then this whole thing becomes a non-issue.
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Because we believe the rights enumerated the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution are not granted to us by the document, but rather are natural rights to be enjoyed by all free men. The amendments do not grant these rights, rather they restrict the government from encroaching on them.
 
As stated, it is the United States Constitution. I just thought the way it works is, when you become a citizen of the United States, then, you are able to be covered under the United States Constitution. They are only granted by the paper, if you are a citizen. At least thats what i thought anyway. I'm sure there are many MUCH more knowledgeable on this subject than me. :) :confused:
 
I have a green card (not a citizen), and a CCW permit. Georgia is also a "shall issue state" , and didn't have any issue in obtaining the license. I got more issues from the gun store when I tried to buy a gun.

As to whether a non-citizen should/should not be allowed to carry (ad I don't want to open a can of worms), my take is that since I am a legal permanent resident, I also have a right to defend myself and my property. I pay taxes and have to adhere to the same laws as citizens, so I should also be allowed to defend what is legally mine. Just my 2c.

To the OP - the only way you'll find out is if you actually apply. VA might have a different statute or by-law that restricts this, but I'd be surprised, since it is a "shall Issue" state.
 
EVERYONE is so worried about liability law suits, that unfortunately, the many, have to pay the price for a few nutjobs who misuse & abuse the rights we are given. I suffer as well. I certainly don't agree with that method of thinking. I thought thats what the Criminal Justice System was for---to punish those who abuse thier rights. There is NO LAW that says I can not purchase a knife here in WNY State, even Wal-Mart sells them, YET MANY places will not even ship to NY State---PERIOD, even though that law is for NYC only. You would not punish your daughter for what your son did, yet we get punished for what someone else did. I don't understand it at all. :confused:
 
TwinStick said:
As stated, it is the United States Constitution. I just thought the way it works is, when you become a citizen of the United States, then, you are able to be covered under the United States Constitution. They are only granted by the paper, if you are a citizen. At least thats what i thought anyway. I'm sure there are many MUCH more knowledgeable on this subject than me. :) :confused:
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Yes, the document restricts the United States government from encroaching on the natural rights of free men. The document doesn't give the rights, you already have them, they are naturally part of being human. That's the idea behind the Bill of Rights.


TwinStick said:
EVERYONE is so worried about liability law suits, that unfortunately, the many, have to pay the price for a few nutjobs who misuse & abuse the rights we are given.
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You are not given the rights, you have them by virtue of being alive and human.
 
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trouser chili said:
Yes, the document restricts the United States government from encroaching on the natural rights of free men. The document doesn't give the rights, you already have them, they are naturally part of being human. That's the idea behind the Bill of Rights.




You are not given the rights, you have them by virtue of being alive and human.
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EXACTLY!!! the question isn't 'why SHOULD they be allowed a CWP" the question is 'why should they be denied'

any right that is "given" is NOT a right, at all. it's a temporary priviledge allowed by your master.

"permanent resident alien" is a BIG DEAL. to anybody who doesn't realize just what is involved in achieving that status, i'll give you an idea - i married my wife, in a foreign country. neither of us have ever been charged with a real crime. in fact, i'm LEO. we paid ALL the fees, filled out all the paperwork. then.... after FOURTEEN MONTHS, she was allowed to enter this country. there are naturally born U.S. citizens running around here that have underwent far less scrutiny.
 
zignal_zero said:
any right that is "given" is NOT a right, at all. it's a temporary priviledge allowed by your master.
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To compound on that, the idea in which our country was founded is that as a free man I have no master. I am my own master. That is what it means to be free. No person or paper gave me rights, because to do so would imply that I didn't have them prior. A free man, a truly free man needs no rights granted upon him, because he already has them.

The idea is and was that I have rights by virtue of being alive and human. It's a powerful idea that didn't exist in significance before the founding of the US, and it's sad to see that people that live with and enjoy the protection of those freedoms don't understand them or the protections in place. This is the price of a poor education system.
 
EDITED for my sake before I get banned for opening up a can of worms.
 
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I also believe that certain priviledges should be reserved for citizens. I do not think that resident aliens should be allowed the CCW priviledge.
 
joe-bob said:
I also believe that certain priviledges should be reserved for citizens. I do not think that resident aliens should be allowed the CCW priviledge.
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i'm not trying to start anything, here, but i do have two questions for you:

(1) do you really feel being armed is a "priviledge"?
(2) why do you feel a permanent resident alien should have to be unarmed?
 
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