Can a traditional folder be "too nice"?

[JAB]

I think you may be using the wrong criteria to judge custom/handmade knives as well as unfairly trying to compare them to factory knives. As has been mentioned, how the knife looks is only part of the story - you have to handle and really feel a custom knife to get the full effect. Over the years, I've had the pleasure of owning and handling knives from some of the top makers/'smiths. Most of these would have been considered to be "flawless" (as was to be expected of knives in that league) and yet, no one would have any doubt as to their being handmade.

 

[Thalestin]

I think questions like these really are a personal question only each person can decide. For example, if you only got joy out of using your knives and you got a custom that you thought was too nice to use. Then it would be too perfect. Bottom line is what you want from your knives. Traditional knives are kind of what you make of them. For some its customs, others it might be case. Others yet have a thing for GEC (me). It doesnt really matter. What matters s that you get something out of your knives. Be it traditional or otherwise.

The guys on this forum have a special kind of bond with blades of traditional flavor. Just because you like vanilla doesnt mean you cant like chocolate and hate strawberry.

-Mark

 

[KnifeHead]

It's just plain bad form to compare a production knife of any quality with a hand made knife. It's ok though...we won't hold it against you. When I first found out about hand made knives and how much people were willing to pay for them...I didn't understand either.

BTW, nice bass. I made one back in the 90's.

 

[matt1987]

i don't think it lacks any. but that's coming from someone who just owns production knives. to me, a knife gets its personality from the "soul" the craftsman and the scale material breathe into it. and while you use the knife you are also changing it's personality, by the oil of your hands, wear from use etc. maybe even memories/nostalgia plays a role on the feel of a knife.

 

[NirreBosse]

For me there exist no knifes that is to nice according to exactly made parts. I cant see how a nicely made knife should lack personality by being to good. But some lesser good knifes kan still be nice even though not perfect. Its not imperfection that gives a knife its caracter but the overall touch of a well executed pattern. The stockman that became a example here by mr Pena is indeed made with superiour skills, a thing he chares with a few other craftsmen, but its the tounch, feeling for the pattern that lifts the knife to the level I experience when I see it. It has a toughness and strictness that gives me a feeling of free nature that makes me price it.
On the other hand a knife can be to fancy for my tastes and that goes from simplest factory brand to finest of the finest customs. ( remember Im a Swede, I have only seen pictures, and touched some lockbacks of Kaj Embertsen here in my corner of the world) To much swedges and fancy bolsters or fantasy coulours and jigging make them to fancy for me. Knifes in my taste has to have the looks of a tool left in them.
When It comes to modern knifes I have bouth with G10 and FRN and I also like them to bee as good fitted as possible. I dont carry them often but thats not because they are to fine made, it has to do with my hart, and the hart strays its own ways.

Bosse

 

[iandh]

It's just plain bad form to compare a production knife of any quality with a hand made knife. It's ok though...we won't hold it against you. When I first found out about hand made knives and how much people were willing to pay for them...I didn't understand either.

BTW, nice bass. I made one back in the 90's.

It isn't a matter of me lacking understanding regarding the cost of handmade knives... I've paid money for handmade instruments that would make even the spendiest knife collector gag a little bit. My viewpoint on the issue doesn't change just because one or more ends are pointy.

The only comparison I truly intended in this thread, was that of a finely made modern folder, vs. a finely made traditional folder. The Case folder was the third wheel, so to speak.

For me there exist no knifes that is to nice according to exactly made parts. I cant see how a nicely made knife should lack personality by being to good. But some lesser good knifes kan still be nice even though not perfect. Its not imperfection that gives a knife its caracter but the overall touch of a well executed pattern. The stockman that became a example here by mr Pena is indeed made with superiour skills, a thing he chares with a few other craftsmen, but its the tounch, feeling for the pattern that lifts the knife to the level I experience when I see it. It has a toughness and strictness that gives me a feeling of free nature that makes me price it.
On the other hand a knife can be to fancy for my tastes and that goes from simplest factory brand to finest of the finest customs. ( remember Im a Swede, I have only seen pictures, and touched some lockbacks of Kaj Embertsen here in my corner of the world) To much swedges and fancy bolsters or fantasy coulours and jigging make them to fancy for me. Knifes in my taste has to have the looks of a tool left in them.
When It comes to modern knifes I have bouth with G10 and FRN and I also like them to bee as good fitted as possible. I dont carry them often but thats not because they are to fine made, it has to do with my hart, and the hart strays its own ways.

Bosse

Thanks, good post.

 

[1581zebra]

Regarding a finely made modern vs a finely made traditional... after a hundred years of carry, my sebenzas will still be cold and soul-less. Not so with even the most perfectly made traditional. I love modern one handers too, but they just don't have the soul of the old stuff I grew up with.

 

[iandh]

Regarding a finely made modern vs a finely made traditional... after a hundred years of carry, my sebenzas will still be cold and soul-less. Not so with even the most perfectly made traditional. I love modern one handers too, but they just don't have the soul of the old stuff I grew up with.

I guess I'm starting to see what you're saying, and the source of my original question. Sometimes visualization is the best way to attack a problem.

If I visualize a 100 year old Pena, and a 100 year old Sebenza sitting next to each other... I can actually see the character on the Pena. In my mind's eye, the sebenza just looks like a burnished slab of metal.

 

[NeoClassic]

For me, price holds more sway than handmade vs. production. If I'm paying top dollar, then I want as close to perfection as I can get, regardless of how the product was produced. If there are quirks, I see them as flaws that should not be there, given what I'm paying for.

On the other hand, production-line imperfections, such as can be seen on the Victorinox Alox models I have (gaps here and there, some tooling marks, differences in spring tension from one knife to the next) are fine with me because the price of that product is so low given the quality you get.

Similarly, my GEC Scout's Bocote wood scales are slightly different one side versus the other. That kind of bothered me at first, seeing the unevenness. But I love the knife so much that I don't even think about it anymore. And it cost me well below $100.

Does it add to my liking the knife that you can see evidence of hand-craftsmanship? No. I'd just as soon have the scales be symmetric.

Would I like the knife less if the scales were done entirely by machine? No, because the inherent design of the knife is so much to my liking.

That said, a big selling point on GEC knives for me is the fact that they are made on the same machines that cranked knives out decades ago. To me, that adds as much charm as being entirely handmade.

EDIT: I very much agree with what NirreBosse said, too. But I don't agree with Knifehead that it's "bad form" to compare handmade and production products. People should feel free to compare whatever they want without concern for hurting the egos of those who paid 10 times more for a product that essentially performs the same task.

 

[iandh]

For me, price holds more sway than handmade vs. production. If I'm paying top dollar, then I want as close to perfection as I can get, regardless of how the product was produced. If there are quirks, I see them as flaws that should not be there, given what I'm paying for.

On the other hand, production-line imperfections, such as can be seen on the Victorinox Alox models I have (gaps here and there, some tooling marks, differences in spring tension from one knife to the next) are fine with me because the price of that product is so low given the quality you get.

Similarly, my GEC Scout's Bocote wood scales are slightly different one side versus the other. That kind of bothered me at first, seeing the unevenness. But I love the knife so much that I don't even think about it anymore. And it cost me well below $100.

Does it add to my liking the knife that you can see evidence of hand-craftsmanship? No. I'd just as soon have the scales be symmetric.

Would I like the knife less if the scales were done entirely by machine? No, because the inherent design of the knife is so much to my liking.

That said, a big selling point on GEC knives for me is the fact that they are made on the same machines that cranked knives out decades ago. To me, that adds as much charm as being entirely handmade.

EDIT: I very much agree with what NirreBosse said, too. But I don't agree with Knifehead that it's "bad form" to compare handmade and production products. People should feel free to compare whatever they want without concern for hurting the egos of those who paid 10 times more for a product that essentially performs the same task.

I feel the same way. Thanks for your post.

 

[NeoClassic]

In reading the replies by Ken Erickson and others, something else struck me: simplicity often lends a sense of charm, and this is what is lacking in many modern products of every kind.

It's the simple form and function of old things that lends them their beauty and allure, and that makes us like them so much and realize how overly complicated everything has become in our perpetual quest to improve upon things.

Simple is perfect, whether handcrafted or factory built.

 

[iandh]

In reading the replies by Ken Erickson and others, something else struck me: simplicity often lends a sense of charm, and this is what is lacking in many modern products of every kind.

It's the simple form and function of old things that lends them their beauty and allure, and that makes us like them so much and realize how overly complicated everything has become in our perpetual quest to improve upon things.

Simple is perfect, whether handcrafted or factory built.

I must agree again, I've said the same about the stockman pattern in the other thread I made.

That said, there are some things which traditional folders stink at, but normally I wouldn't be using them for that in an EDC setting.

For one, a traditional folder would not be the only knife I'd take camping. Most of the times I've almost hurt myself with one, has been in a woodcraft setting.

 

[NeoClassic]

I must agree again, I've said the same about the stockman pattern in the other thread I made.

That said, there are some things which traditional folders stink at, but normally I wouldn't be using them for that in an EDC setting.

For one, a traditional folder would not be the only knife I'd take camping. Most of the times I've almost hurt myself with one, has been in a woodcraft setting.

I concur and am leaning more and more toward fixed blades exclusively for woodcraft and tough tasks.

To say nothing of safety, my GEC already has a little blade wobble from just whittling a stick or two, and cutting down a couple cardboard boxes. The soft pivot pin and liner materials just aren't as tough as the more modern materials in newer designs.

That said, the Fallkniven TK4 seems like a good compromise between old and new. I'm going to try one out soon.

Wish Cold Steel would make a traditional pattern with the Triad lock and 100% G10 handle. That would be perfect.

 

[iandh]

I concur and am leaning more and more toward fixed blades exclusively for woodcraft and tough tasks.

To say nothing of safety, my GEC already has a little blade wobble from just whittling a stick or two, and cutting down a couple cardboard boxes. The soft pivot pin and liner materials just aren't as tough as the more modern materials in newer designs.

That said, the Fallkniven TK4 seems like a good compromise between old and new. I'm going to try one out soon.

Wish Cold Steel would make a traditional pattern with the Triad lock and 100% G10 handle. That would be perfect.

That's one reason I really, really like the stockman design. The long blade is great for fruit and sandwich slicing, the spey blade is good for scalpel use such as cutting thick soft materials like rubber sheeting for gaskets, and the sheepsfoot blade is great for piercing into packaging and slicing it open with little effort.



Guess we're going a bit off topic here, but this is much more pleasant than the ruckus I accidentally stirred up.



I'd like to apologize if I offended anyone, I was only going for a philosophical discussion, nothing too serious.

 

[Blues]

Guess we're going a bit off topic here, but this is much more pleasant than the ruckus I accidentally stirred up. I'd like to apologize if I offended anyone, I was only going for a philosophical discussion, nothing too serious.

This would be a good place to close this thread as it is getting a bit off-topic and repetitive. I think the main points have been made. Now it's time for each to make up their own mind how to address the issue.