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Discussion in 'Schrade Knives Collectors Forum' started by koldgold, Apr 26, 2015.

  1. koldgold


    Jul 2, 2010
    Back in 1962-63 Schrade advertised their 8OTs, and said they had Meerschaum Bone handles.
    When this question comes up from time to time, it is quickly dismissed by saying "It is probably Delrin".
    Probably does not answer my question! Delrin and Meerschaum Bone are two different words, and mean two different materials. The internet indicates Meerschaum Bone was used to make pipes - Could this be the material used by Schrade for their 8OTs with the Black Handles in 1962-64? ... Ken
  2. Old Hunter

    Old Hunter Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 12, 2012
    This is an Ulster 11G Barlow, definitely sawcut bone. I've had it listed in my collection as Meerschaum Bone since I've had it (several years) and being made from 1947-1959. I probably got the references when I bought the knife. OH

  3. delmas2nd

    delmas2nd Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 14, 2008
    if you can figure out how to use the search feature there has been a discussion on that. me i never can get it to take me to where i can find useful information.
    i do know that real Meerschaum is not bone but a mineral that is used to make pipes for one thing.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2015
  4. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    It was a tradename they tried for sawcut Delrin.
  5. Ballenxj


    Oct 30, 2010
    I think we can look to this site for definition. http://www.meerschaum.com/faq.aspx
  6. lrv


    Sep 14, 2003
  7. Ballenxj


    Oct 30, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2015
  8. koldgold


    Jul 2, 2010
    I think this question has been well and truly answered. Schrade used 'Meerschaum Bone' in the same way the seller on ebay.
    That seller, always has something that no-one has ever seen. His 'Meerschaum Bone' 8OT is listed at "20% OFF - $479:99"
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2015
  9. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    Koldgold, edit out the jerkit emoticon. It is only to be used in the Whine and cheese forum as noted in the emoticon menue.
  10. koldgold


    Jul 2, 2010
    Sorry about that Codger, that seller puts so much rubbish in his listings.
    Like you, I like to know the history behind Schrade - I have tryed to understand the first years of the 8OT.
    Todate there is still so many unanswered questions regarding the first 2 or 3 years of the 8OTs.
    I can now tick off the Meerschaum Bone part of the puzzle... Ken
  11. FatCity67


    Sep 22, 2013
    Woof, glad I'm not the only one to do that.

    Now I know the rest of the story on meerschaum bone.
  12. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    Well as much as we know of it anyway. Until we can convince Eric to further bug Mr. Swinden for the story behind the changeover from natural materials to plastics.

    Many of us suspect that other plastics were tried before Dupont got their factory up and running. Such as the plastics molded under the aegis of Imperial in Mexico. We have bits of that story from Baer's memoirs which suggest the source was Foster of Foster Sunglasses fame. Those molded sunglasses frames caught Baer's eye and imagination and prompted him to import injection molding machines to Mexico, briefly open a plant there then move the machines to the U.S.

    Larry303 and I have the only examples of the knives produced at that facility that I am aware of. I believe I have three of them and he owns the rest of the known knife roll.
  13. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    More? Imperial/Schrade were certainly not the first to use plastics. Camillus (Kastor Brothers) used a molded material on knives in the late 1930's they called "Buckhorn type stag" which was actually molded cell made to look like stag horn, much like Schrade's later UH series of knives. And I recall Kinfolks using a molded plastic material on fixed blade knives, black hard rubber I think and these were custom molded with other cutleries' marks. I have one made for Imperial and have seen them in at least three other brandings.. And then George Schrade used stag molded styrene on a series of fixed blade knives.
  14. Larry303


    Jul 28, 2005
    G'day Codger, you mentioned my Imperial Hecho en Mexico Salesman's samples <photo attached of the 22 samples I have>....
    So far we have been able to glean the following info re their history.....<the 'Imperial Heco en Mexico' and 'Cuchilleria Imperial Mexico' <Cuchilleria = Cutlery> tang stamping would seem to be very scarce to find>...Patent on Mexican Knife Nov. 1944 issued Xmas Day 1945 Michael Mirando patent.=Imperial Product.
    Goins Encyclopedia of Cutlery Markings page 138 under Imperial Knife Company lists 'Imperial Mexico'.

    Some info seems conflicting anyway I present it from the various sources....
    From the 'Banquet' timeline table fact sheet at Imperial Knifes' Company Inc 50th Anniversary 1916 - 1966 "Imperial Highlights"...<I have an actual copy>..under 1944 'Planning ahead for peacetime,Imperial, in partnership Albert Baer and Henry Baer and the Foster Grant Co, established Cuchilleria Imperial Mexico, its first International venture..

    In 1946 Albert Baer, Michael Mirando, Joe Fazzanno and other Industrialists met at a Conference in Monterey Mexico....so possible Mexico production must have remained in Alberts' mind.....then a Schrade collector who has always remained under collector radar never posting but often reading our forum, who lived in Walden/Ellenville environs for many years,& who knew both the Baers' personally..who only wants to be called "a reliable source"...has told me the following by email:

    Quote..:'Around 1958 or thereabouts Albert Baer and Joe Foster Grant of the sunglasses Co. went to Monteray Mexico..they subsequently purchased the knife factory in a venture of making knives for Sears Robuck but it was short lived as the Mexicans stole the doors off the place and were rolling grinding wheels around and they could not get rid of it fast enough..very short lived..' end Quote.....

    Another theory that has been put to me by a very knowledgeable Schrade collector is : 'bringing the Foster moulding machinery in thru Mexico was possibly how 'they' circumvented the Dupont forbidding of the import of the moulding machines to U.S. Apparently Dupont had a lock also on the plastic powder <pellets> used in the moulding process. They may well have been protos for the later/following Imperials. Steel injection moulds are not cheap, then or now.'......

    My salesman's samples all have production example numbers on each...I have no idea how many <if any?> actually ever got made...few seem to show up..
    One would assume the facts presented in print at the 1966 50th Anniversary Banquet stating 1944 was when Imperial established Cuchilleria Imperial Mexico would seem to be correct as both Albert and Henry would have been in attendance...so make of the above what you will...all very interesting in the Imperial Schrade timelines..

    The history how these Imperial Salesman's samples survived in tact rather than suffering the fate of other Schrade artefacts at the infamous ""sale""...history really should be recorded whilst we still can so I supply the following...
    Herman Williams has told me personally the following:....'They came from the sample room when Imperial in Providence closed down. I obtained all the Imperials and some other brands of knives that Schrade had, that also came from the Providence sale room....... Dave Swinden and I were in the safe, this was a large room where Albert's wife kept her glass collection, and there was a lot of cutlery related items stored in there...... Dave called my attention to the Imperial Knives..... Dave left me there and I started to go through the box of Imperials from the closed sample room..... I acquired some, however when I got back to NC I found the Mexican Imperials and so I sent the 22 Mexican Imperials back to Dave in the brown box..<I have that brown box in my collection>. Herman continues...'When we were putting the collector knives on display in Ellenville I never thought of those Mexican Imperials, neither did anyone, they were intended to be put up on display but "I just flat forgot' they were in there and remained in that safe/storage room.'...<and thus remained intact...rather than split up and sold separately>.

    How interesting are all these Schrade facts/history recorded by those that were there?...who said knives are only boring implements?..Hoo Roo

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  15. koldgold


    Jul 2, 2010
    Hi Larry, Please try and post you photos in a better way. Every time you post your collection, I fell your photos deprive us on-lockers.
  16. Larry303


    Jul 28, 2005
    G'day Ken, there are about 20 photos of my Imperial Mexico collection complete with tang stampings etc on lrv's <Larry Vickery's>Collector site...on the first page you can't miss them...Hoo Roo
  17. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    I believe I have posted my three here repeatedly as well. Dang but now I am feeling bad for not reuniting my trio with the rest of that knife roll in Australia. I may have to remedy that before long.
  18. ea42

    ea42 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 1, 2006
    Larry I heard the same story about the doors....knives put together without nail marks, blades in backwards. The tequila must have really been flowing during lunch LOL! You probably don't see many because most of them were spirited out the back door to be sold immediately to the highest bidder.
  19. Larry303


    Jul 28, 2005
    Lol Eric....I guess the person who had the toughest job was the actual salesman who had to sell the Mexican made "knives".....if he ever did manage to sell any....they would have appealed to the Bartender trade and 'Boy Scouts' by the designs....don't know that Sears Robuck customers would have got too excited over them....

    Note Codger: Is it possible to shift/transfer all the posts concerning the Imperial Mexicans in this thread to a new thread, to enable future Forum searches to show this thread if and when new/additional info becomes available?..Thanks..Hoo Roo
  20. Ballenxj


    Oct 30, 2010
    NO! Say it ain't so! :eek: Not that fine upstanding bunch. :rolleyes:
    That sounds like a very good idea. :)

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