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Can anyone confirm this is a genuine Kiku Matsuda?
- Thread starter Dan512
- Start date
I sent them 3 mails asking for help over the last 3 weeks, not a word came back. And I live in Europe, so the Blade is a bit of a drive
If Kikuo Matsuda was getting ready to go to Atlanta this month he might have been too busy to get to such emails.I sent them 3 mails asking for help over the last 3 weeks, not a word came back. And I live in Europe, so the Blade is a bit of a drive
If I were in Atlanta and heading to the Blade Show I'd be glad to walk over to exhibit 28U and show him your pictures.
However, I'm probably an even further drive from the show than you are.
Let's see, Luxembourg - Atlanta = 4,507 miles as the crow flies for me. with quite a long swim in the middleHowever, I'm probably an even further drive from the show than you are.
Hokkaido Japan to Atlanta USA............6391 miles.
The swim across the Pacific alone is close to your total miles.
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This is my personal opinion, but this knife looks like a copy to me. In fact, if I have to be specific, I think it is a copy of the Raijin model. Here are my reasons.
Someone above has already said what needs to be said about the blade.
Kiku knives, as far as I can see, have a protruding finger notch at the top of the blade form for the thumb on the longer models.
The screws (pin\rivet) holding the handle are different on the kiku knives I have seen and looked at on the internet.
Also, the kydex sheaths generally follow a rectangular shape that includes the shape of the blade instead of taking the shape of the blade and ending.
As for my irrational reasons, for some reason this knife feels like a machine-made mass-produced knife rather than a handmade
one.
But they are biased. So an expert can enlighten us
Someone above has already said what needs to be said about the blade.
Kiku knives, as far as I can see, have a protruding finger notch at the top of the blade form for the thumb on the longer models.
The screws (pin\rivet) holding the handle are different on the kiku knives I have seen and looked at on the internet.
Also, the kydex sheaths generally follow a rectangular shape that includes the shape of the blade instead of taking the shape of the blade and ending.
As for my irrational reasons, for some reason this knife feels like a machine-made mass-produced knife rather than a handmade
one.
But they are biased. So an expert can enlighten us
OK, you win
I bought a collection of 20 or so knifes from that seller. He was a lifelong collector of nice knives and especially damascus blades. Almost all of his collection was lost in the floodings in Germany in 2021,what his family managed to save (and what is with me now) does not indicate him buying a clone (unless of course if he got ripped of).
I suspect that the knife is quite old maybe 15-20 years since he was of poor health lately and not very active anymore.
I hope that Matsuda-San is going to reply at some point.
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Collecting for a long time is one thing, whether the knife is genuine or not is another. The seller of the knife said that the knife was made in USA in the photo you shared. Doesn't this indicate that there is at least a possibility that he does not have enough information about what he is buying in this particular knife? Also K KenHash made a very important point. "Every Kiku I've had has been hamaguriba (convex grind) and a clear edge bevel was not visible." But as I said, whatever we say, these are just speculations.
He has dementia and cannot help anymore.
I dealt with his family. They advertised the knife as « made in USA ».
My point with collecting for a long time was to point out that it may well be a Kiku of a certain age.
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I'm no expert on Matsuda and I don't pretend to have anything other than an informed opinion in answer to this question. But Matsuda has produced knives that did not include the steel type printed on the blade. He has also made knives that possessed edge bevels and were not convex- or zero-ground. Here are two older examples that look to be from the same era as Dan512's knife.
Also, while I agree that it's a good idea for Dan512 to identify the model, I don't agree that the inability to do so weighs in favor of the knife's being a fake. I understand that an unidentifiable model might be easy to claim as a one-off. But doesn't that defeat the purpose of counterfeiting? You can pretend a couple of fakes are "one of a kind" models, but you certainly can't do that on a mass scale, which I think is what counterfeiters generally shoot for. All the maker has to do is announce "I never made a knife that looked like that" and the fake becomes worthless.
Dan512's knife came from the collection of a German knife maker and collector. It makes sense to me that he bought or traded for the knife directly from Kiku Matsuda at a knife show that they both attended.
-Steve
P.S. - A number stamped into the tang with a corresponding number etched into the scales is a common way for makers to marry up the correct handle scales to the blade after working on it (heat treating, acid etching, etc.).
Also, while I agree that it's a good idea for Dan512 to identify the model, I don't agree that the inability to do so weighs in favor of the knife's being a fake. I understand that an unidentifiable model might be easy to claim as a one-off. But doesn't that defeat the purpose of counterfeiting? You can pretend a couple of fakes are "one of a kind" models, but you certainly can't do that on a mass scale, which I think is what counterfeiters generally shoot for. All the maker has to do is announce "I never made a knife that looked like that" and the fake becomes worthless.
Dan512's knife came from the collection of a German knife maker and collector. It makes sense to me that he bought or traded for the knife directly from Kiku Matsuda at a knife show that they both attended.
-Steve
P.S. - A number stamped into the tang with a corresponding number etched into the scales is a common way for makers to marry up the correct handle scales to the blade after working on it (heat treating, acid etching, etc.).
The points raised above are exactly why I have not stated with absolute conviction that this subject knife is fake,
However, a model that can not be identified raises a red flag. And I have searched Google Japan rather vigorously.
I have also asked people I know who are more familiar with Kiku knives than I am, and have found no identification.
The suggestion that a "counterfeit" would not be made of a non-existing model is incorrect. Countefeiters in China have long made
copies of real makers with the models not corresponding to existing models.They simply copythe style and logo,A quick look ar Ebay at
Cold Steel and SOG knives will show this.
There are examples of Kiku knives that do not have the steel type. There are also examples that have no 菊 logo. For example, there are some that have
a bear's paw as a logo,. But these have been identified as having made by Kikuo Matsuda's son in the same shop.
So I look forward to either uncovering more clues, or getting a definitive response from Mr Matsuda himself at some point.
However, a model that can not be identified raises a red flag. And I have searched Google Japan rather vigorously.
I have also asked people I know who are more familiar with Kiku knives than I am, and have found no identification.
The suggestion that a "counterfeit" would not be made of a non-existing model is incorrect. Countefeiters in China have long made
copies of real makers with the models not corresponding to existing models.They simply copythe style and logo,A quick look ar Ebay at
Cold Steel and SOG knives will show this.
There are examples of Kiku knives that do not have the steel type. There are also examples that have no 菊 logo. For example, there are some that have
a bear's paw as a logo,. But these have been identified as having made by Kikuo Matsuda's son in the same shop.
So I look forward to either uncovering more clues, or getting a definitive response from Mr Matsuda himself at some point.
Well they were at the Theirs show 2 weeks ago.I sent them 3 mails asking for help over the last 3 weeks, not a word came back. And I live in Europe, so the Blade is a bit of a drive
A lot of people don’t answer emails if identified as possible spam. He’s 70yo, maybe he doesn’t speak the language you emailed him in, maybe it’s trapped in a junk folder. He has a contact form on his website, try that.
His site says “One of his highly-regarded arts is called “Hamaguri-Ba“; This in an ancient Japanese art for Japanese sword.
A convex cross-section shape of blade, which has gently curve from the blade edge to the back, is called like that.”
Seems your edge isn’t like that. What language did you use, english may not be the best language to contact a 70yo Japanese Master Cutler.
I contacted him in english since the whole website is in english and rather well done and since the company has a certain size and the site even offers worldwide shipping, I figured "someone" there speaks english.Well they were at the Theirs show 2 weeks ago.
A lot of people don’t answer emails if identified as possible spam. He’s 70yo, maybe he doesn’t speak the language you emailed him in, maybe it’s trapped in a junk folder. He has a contact form on his website, try that.
His site says “One of his highly-regarded arts is called “Hamaguri-Ba“; This in an ancient Japanese art for Japanese sword.
A convex cross-section shape of blade, which has gently curve from the blade edge to the back, is called like that.”
Seems your edge isn’t like that. What language did you use, english may not be the best language to contact a 70yo Japanese Master Cutler.
I do not think it‘s a one man show of just him.
I also tried the contact form.
I‘ll wait for a few days and sent them another mail from my work adress, maybe their spam filter hates yahoo.
Give him some time. Between getting ready for and going to Blade Show and the hellacious return trip... He might not even think about emails for a bjt
One.other thing that has caught my eye is the handle..... I've only seen OD green and black canvas micarta scales on his work. Take it with a grain of salt though odds are he's used.all sorts of stuff but the two dominant ones are what I said above!!!
Kiku finally answered. As suspected, they were at the Blade show, hence the delay. But it was worth the wait:
I have asked them if they can give me a year and the model name.
Congrats!!! As you said, worth the wait.
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Congrats my friend, How many kiku knives do you have?Kiku finally answered. As suspected, they were at the Blade show, hence the delay. But it was worth the wait:
I have asked them if they can give me a year and the model name.
Only that one. Which I will sell because I need to recup some of the money that I spent on the collection and knife steel that I bought from them