Can anyone help identify this knife?

lost_grrl · Sep 15, 2015

Thank you so much to everyone for all of the help!

gunsil · Sep 15, 2015

I was just talking to a friend with whom I share old catalogs with and he reminded me that the 1957 KA-BAR catalog shows these brass and black space handled hunting knives.

zzyzzogeton · Sep 16, 2015

Ooh Ooh - any chance you could get him to send you a scan of that page so we coukd see what models they came in? Maybe if you told him "Pretty please, with a cherry on top!!"

So that would have Kabar reintroducing them the year after Western came out with the Black Beauties. Unless of course they were in the Kabar 1955 or 1956 catalogs.

gunsil · Sep 16, 2015

Actually zzzy, I have a copy of that 1957 catalog, had just forgotten about it. Problem is finding it among my slovenly attempts at organizing my catalog collection. (I also have some early Case and Catt and sporting goods store catalogs and a stack of the old KA-BAR Collector's club newslettersand my organizational skills are wanting.) I'm going fishing for a month in another week or so and have been busy doing household chores and getting all my gear together for that trip so I am unsure if I can dig out the 1957 catalog before then. It may not be the first catalog showing the brass handled knives, or the last, so it would be unfair to surmise that they started producing them after Western's BB knives came out. I don't know if you are aware that Union Cut made many fixed blade knives for Western in their earlier years. The 1957 is the only 50s catalog I know of at this point in time, one would need earlier and later ones or at least price lists to know when the series began or ended. Price lists are often harder to come by than the catalogs which are rare enough!!

zzyzzogeton · Sep 16, 2015

I understand about the organization thing. I fall into the same category.

I knew about the Kabar/Western connection, but I didn't learn about it until a couple of years ago. I went back and modified all the relevant knife labels with "MBK" for "Made By Kabar" and added the code to my list of codes. My organization skills may draw vacuum but I'm great at making lists.

With 1957 as a start point, though, when I go to UTs big collections library to look through their old magazine collections for knife ads, it'll help zero in. I'm only "back to" 1958 looking for documentation on various questions I have.

I bought a couple of knives many years ago while stationed in Norfolk at an estate sale. The knives still had the deceased owner's tags on them. As I was even more clueless then than I am now, I asked the seller what the "words" meant. His response was basically "no clue, Dad was into knives, not us and we can't find any notes about what the codes mean. They meant something to him but not us."

After that, I realized I was guilty of the same behavior. I made a list of the codes I was using and have added to it as I developed new ones. The list also means that I don't arbitrarily have 5 codes for the same piece of information. And my nephew and niece both know where the lists are kept.

Wish I could go fishing for a month. I'm jealous.

At least we'll know why you are incommunicado. Take a lot of pics for us and I'll sit here "patiently waiting" like a 5 year old in church that has to go to the restroom.

Zemapeli · Oct 10, 2015

lost_grrl said:
He has a Kabar sheath for it. He has no idea where he got it...just found it in the bottom of an old tool box that his dad gave him when he was a kid. He was hoping (as we all do when we find old things) that it was valuable but it seems unlikely. I don't know why anyone would put this particular handle on it...it's not at all comfortable because the individual metal stripes (for lack of a better term) are ridged so the skin of your palm almost gets pinched a bit...for sure if you held it very firmly for long you would end up with an imprint of the ridges on your hand. Other than that it seems made well... I don't think you can tell from just looking at it that the blade was not originally attached to the handle.

The black material (whatever it is) must have shrunk in the toolbox it was in. It might be a phenolic or a black micarta of some kind. You can go over the handle with one or two fingers with 2000grit wet/dry until the brass becomes even with the black material. 2000 grit paper is used on automotive and leaves a satin finish. To absolutely finish the handle to perfect, use a product called Flitz Metal Polish and a cotton washcloth and buff it for mirror polish. Flitz is good for the blade, and all metal and material on the handle. Before you use the 2000grit wet dry paper, see if you can plump the black handle material up with just sno seal. Get a sheet of aluminum foil, and apply gobs of sno seal LIBERALLY on the handle.(one spoon full at least) Then tightly roll and fold the foil over the knife forming a cacoon, then use a blowdrier at high heat on the foil over a piece of newspaper and let the heat work the product into the handle. The product seals leather from water and plumps old leather up. For sure use it on the leather of the sheath. The product will slightly darken leather, but restores, seals from water, and stops the leather from deteriorating. Was the toolbox left in the heat and weather for a long time? That would do it. I suggest you buy a jar of Atsko Sno-Seal. an 8oz jar of it is only nine dollars plus shipping. A tube of Flitz metal polish is only ten dollars as well. If you really want to restore the knife and go that route, Buy a bottle of Loctite Naval Jelly and some steel wool and hopes weathergaurd/or K1 Kerosene. Apply the Loctite Naval Jelly to the black oxides on the blade and allow to sit for 10-12 minutes. The oxides will soften, then use light 00 steel wool to buff at the oxides to exfoliate the oxide filled pits to bare steel. Then after scrubbing, rinse the blade with warm water and dish soap and wipe with a rag. Then use the hopes weathergaurd or K1 Kerosene to neutralize the Naval Jelly as it is a mild phosphoric acid. The K1 Kerosene or Hoppes Weathergaurd is a Petroleum Distillate. Petroleum distillates will penetrate and neutralize those acids. Weathergaurd leaves a coating on knives that repels water and does not leave any "slick" on knives... It also doesn't collect dust or lint like Rem Oil does. Just FYI...

Let me know if you want to know anything more.. -Zemapeli

Zemapeli · Oct 10, 2015

gunsil said:
Actually zzzy, I have a copy of that 1957 catalog, had just forgotten about it. Problem is finding it among my slovenly attempts at organizing my catalog collection. (I also have some early Case and Catt and sporting goods store catalogs and a stack of the old KA-BAR Collector's club newslettersand my organizational skills are wanting.) I'm going fishing for a month in another week or so and have been busy doing household chores and getting all my gear together for that trip so I am unsure if I can dig out the 1957 catalog before then. It may not be the first catalog showing the brass handled knives, or the last, so it would be unfair to surmise that they started producing them after Western's BB knives came out. I don't know if you are aware that Union Cut made many fixed blade knives for Western in their earlier years. The 1957 is the only 50s catalog I know of at this point in time, one would need earlier and later ones or at least price lists to know when the series began or ended. Price lists are often harder to come by than the catalogs which are rare enough!!

Gunsil, not to take this thread off topic.. But is that knife in your avatar a Mexican artillery knife? That is what it looks like and I have never seen anything like that made by Kabar. Interesting.

gunsil · Oct 11, 2015

Zema, the knife on the old KA-BAR sign is a model 638, called "Bearcat" in the old catalog. It was a short lived model, only appearing in the first KA-BAR catalog but it was also made for a few years before the KA-BAR trademark was introduced. Here's an bigger pic of the sign and you will see that it actually looks nothing like the Mexican "artillery knives". The model 638 Bearcat was also available with a wood handle as model 338, the first letter of the model number is the handle material with the 6 being the number for stag. KA-BAR made many hunting knives which you will rarely see, the 38 series is fairly rare and came with 5" or 6" blades.

By the way, the OP's knife was originally chrome plated so all that naval jelly stuff will not help in "restoring" the knife.

Zemapeli · Oct 13, 2015

gunsil said:
View attachment 583958 Zema, the knife on the old KA-BAR sign is a model 638, called "Bearcat" in the old catalog. It was a short lived model, only appearing in the first KA-BAR catalog but it was also made for a few years before the KA-BAR trademark was introduced. Here's an bigger pic of the sign and you will see that it actually looks nothing like the Mexican "artillery knives". The model 638 Bearcat was also available with a wood handle as model 338, the first letter of the model number is the handle material with the 6 being the number for stag. KA-BAR made many hunting knives which you will rarely see, the 38 series is fairly rare and came with 5" or 6" blades.

By the way, the OP's knife was originally chrome plated so all that naval jelly stuff will not help in "restoring" the knife.

Thanks for sharing, gunsil. Interesting info.
OP, best of luck with that knife. :thumbup::thumbup: