Can anyone name this type of sword? pix.

R

ruel

Joined
Nov 22, 1999
Messages
532
I finally managed to get some of my pix onto Photopoint as well, so I thought I'd see if anyone here could help name this thing:

View


It's from the Malabar Coast in the SW coast region, clear across India from Nepal, but since many folks here have been in that area, I'm hoping somebody might've picked up a proper name. Stone shows a very similar one but doesn't name it, and I think Rawson's "Indian Sword" calls it a 'Nayar temple sword." I got the unconfirmed term 'khartri' from the seller, but would like to be sure.

Does anyone have any idea? I know it's NOT a Ram Dao, despite the resemblance: this was clearly not meant for the heavy cutting that the latter is famous for.
 
I don't think it's a khatra/khatir/ka-ha-tra. I can't remember the name off hand.


 
RUEL,
This is a beautiful example of a Temple Sword from Nayar (the Madras region).
18th c. and I saw one almost exactly like it at the V&A Museum in London.



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JP
 
Thanks for you help and comments, gentlemen. We are all in agreement as to what it is, but its proper name, and how/when it was used, is still a mystery. One day, hopefully... (:
 
Ruel,
The museum experts I spoke to never classified this type piece with a proper name like a khanda, or sosun pattah, etc. but kept these weird and wild looking things in the category of "temple sword".
The theory from the V&A was that the guards themselves were fierce looking men with fierce looking weapons. This visual threat enough to dissuade the slightest thought by anyone carrying normal swords of the time to unwanted palace or temple visits. Maybe this was the first "nuke" of its time? My bombs bigger than yours...

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JP
 
Does anyone have ideas how to sheath/ unsheath it?

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Did you enjoy today?
\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
 
A Necklace Sword! - I guess I just give it a name! Anyhow I won't mention this name infront of that fierce looking man who wield that fierce looking Necklace Sword!

NEPAL HO!
 
One look at that thing and you just viscerally *know* where the sickle part was meant to cut. A guy holding that thing coming my way I'd run on general principals even if it was plain he was heading for someone else.

I have a similar aversion to coiled and shaking their rattles rattllesnakes. Feet go into gear and the mind catches up later.

Kinda like seeing a bunch of Gorkhas line up and then pull out their khukuris.

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No more for him lads, it's time he was onto the wagon.

Himalayan Imports Website
 
1. Rusty, it's funny you should mention rattlesnakes, 'cause this sword has some loose copper plates attached to the pommel that do indeed "rattle" when the sword is moved! (And India doesn't even have rattlesnakes!)

2. Wrongfriend & Uncle Bill, I don't think that these "Nayar temple swords" ever had scabbards, which tends to support the V&A's and John's hypothesis that it's a temple piece.

3. But then again, just when you think it's settled, the book "Spiritual Dimensions of the Martial Arts", Chapter on 'India' fig.3, seems to include one of these things in the armory of Kalaripayyatu, a S. Indian martial art. You can see what appears to be the top (sickle) portion of this sword behind the right hand side individual, along the back wall and lined up with several other interesting weapons.

So maybe it was a true fighting weapon after all?
 
One of these days I'm going to have it hit me how many truly knowlegeable people are out there on this forum, and come down with terminal stage fright.

Then again, there's always my medication.

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No more for him lads, it's time he was onto the wagon.

Himalayan Imports Website
 
Interesting...

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Harry


[This message has been edited by Kozak (edited 07-10-2000).]
 
That's the curious thing, Uncle Bill: The picture was not taken in a Hindu Temple at all, but a _Muslim_ training hall!(?)
 
Pakcik Bill, Ruel, Forumites all.

Kalari Payat is a Keralan (South Indian) MA - famous being practices by South Indian Muslim - there is a branch of Kalari Payat MA in Malaysia conducted by Ustaz Hamzah who is a migrant from State of Kerala.

South India is well known as an agricultural area - they have coconut plantation, rice fields and all sort of vagitation fields - it's a grassy & bushy area - they used all sort of tools from sort of machete to a sort of sickle. IM2cO ... whatever used as tools anywhere are normaly being cutomised by the people there to be used as weapon as well! So ... I'm not surprise at all when you mentioned that the pix was taken in a Muslim Training Hall - I guess it is actually a MA Training Hall (or a sort of their Dojo) situated in a Muslim area.

Just like China or even South East Asia - Indian sub-continent are populated by so many ethnic groups, so many type of relegious groups and so many clans! It is normal for each group to have a sort of Dojo for their young men to practices MA which is considered as a compliment to manhood! Down here, those who have zero knowledge in MA are always not considered as manly (is it the correct word?) enough!

Anyhow ... please don't let them know that I named their fierce looking sword as a Neclace Sword ... State of Kerala is not that far from Kuala Lumpur!

NEPAL HO!

 
ruel,

There is a local armourer here that made a sword with an identical blade. He said it was ancient Assyrian in origin. I haven't been able to verify that. I have heard that blade style referred to as coming from the ancient Egyptian "kepesh" sword.

I did some cutting with the armourer's sword I mentioned and it's very much like using a thin bladed ax. He (probably wisely) didn't try to do a scabbard for it, so I can't tell you anything about presenting the weapon.

You can see some of the "dead" bad guys using this blade type in the fight scenes at the necropolis for the recent remake of the "Mummy".

Thanks for the pix.

Finn
 
Thanks Finnean -- nice to find a fellow Texan aboard!

According to Stone's "Glossary," that kind of Assyrian sword is called a 'Sapara.' It does indeed show some resemblance, and calls to mind how ancient Mesopotamia traded with the Indus Valley Civilization in the 3rd-2nd millenium BC. Perhaps this is some extreme vestige of that link?

Oh, and who is that local armorer of yours -- it isn't Daniel Watson from Angel Sword in Wimberley, is it?
 
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