Can I Carry a Lock Back Knife In NY? (I'm Confused)

[knivesngear]

This is all so stupid. I am a police officer in upstate ny and have never heard of such petty non-sense. I take folding knives off of people on a daily basis and have never even had the thought of trying to charge someone with a section of the penal law that is purely open to interpretation. In fact, I give them back to the person after the investigation is over, granted I didn't place them under arrest for whatever reason. Assisted-openers are perfectly legal to have, possess and sell in nys, so a buck folder will be no issue. Any officer that would try to make it so is rediculous and should try and find some real police work to do for a change instead of making up petty arrests. If these folders were illegal, then how can stores like Dicks sporting goods and Walmart sell them?

Thanks. This I what I thought from the beginning because the buck 110 is sold in stores all around NY, and why would they sell and illegal item? Thanks for clearing this all up. As for NYC I don't care because I don't go there anyway, i'm more of an upstate kind of guy

 

[tom19176]

I hope the sane thinking upstate stays that way. In recent years, the NYC way of looking at knives has spread to Long Island and Westchester ( to a limited amount). The main issue you MUST remember is the courts have upheld this level of enforcement to date of the STATE LAW. I know things may not be done this way here or there, BUT if you encounter a rookie looking to make points, a officer on a bad day who deosn't like you attitude, or a numbers drived officer in a specialized unit, he will have a valid arrest for CPW4. Home Depot sold these knives until DA Vance came into there lives .......

 

[Sep]

I put the bigger blame on NYC judges. They choose to interpret the law in such a way that any locking knife is considered a gravity knife.

What's really weird is that there are case precedents in NY state (3 to be exact) where judges ruled that balisongs / butterfly knives are NOT gravity knives! The law specifically defines a gravity knife as:

". . . any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device." Penal Law § 265.00(5).

These NYS judges think that since a balisong doesn't automatically lock when the blade is released, it doesn't fit the definition of a gravity knife.

http://www.mcacp.org/issue53.htm

Based on these precedents, in theory a manually locking slipjoint would also be legal. As long as the knife only locks when you manually engage the locking mechanism after the blade is fully opened, you should be OK. The only problem is no such knife exists today. This sounds like a concept for Spyderco New York.

 

[tom19176]

Sep, first nice to see another person reads beyond the law, and add some understanding to it. The butterfly knives are still considered to be "dangerous knives" by the legal division of the NYPD as recently as last month ( last time I checked). This charge is the same as a gravity knife ( CPW 4). There is a presumption of intent, but the NYS PL allows for an automatic persumption in some cases. The issue with butterfly knife is that although they do not lock in place automatically, they seem to be designed for weapon use and almost always have a blade style that is more for use as a weapon than normal cutting chores. I couldn't find any case law one way or the other stating the NYPD's position of them be a dangerous knife has been upheld in court review, but you will be arrested and charged if you carry one.
I would agree that a tight locking knife, non locking folder under 4" blade should be legal ( although there are officers who may charge you anyway)when not carried as a weapon ( including self defense) and it carried concealled in NYC.
You must remember that since NY law does not prohibit concealled carry, I recommend you always carry a knife concealled in all NY. Once it is exposed ( even a pocket clip), you are violateing a NYC law, and in the rest of NYS you are allowing an officer to question you as to what type of knife it is with any proable cause for a search being needed. Most weapon possession charges in NY that are DPed ( declined procecution) are done so because the DA has concern over the right to conduct a search. When you have any part of the knife exposed, you have effectively elimated that concern for the DA. The best thing to do anywhere in NYS is to carry a non locking small folder that you carry for lawful purposes only. If you need a locking folder, may sure it is very tight and have a valid reason for its use.

 

[Sep]

In this climate I wouldn't carry any locking folder when visiting NYC, because none of mine would pass the flip test. Spyderco UKPK and Boker XS fill this niche, but I don't feel like spending the money just for a trip or two. I'll just carry a SAK.

 

[HeavyHanded]

I put the bigger blame on NYC judges. They choose to interpret the law in such a way that any locking knife is considered a gravity knife.

Agreed 100%. The fact that they continue to allow prosecutions based on presumptions that have not survived the appellate court lets you know what they think of "Justice". It all comes down to what you're willing to fight, and if you're willing to take the case all the way to the SSC or SCOTUS. The judiciary is perfectly content to make you fight regardless of precedent.

Based on these precedents, in theory a manually locking slipjoint would also be legal. As long as the knife only locks when you manually engage the locking mechanism after the blade is fully opened, you should be OK. The only problem is no such knife exists today. This sounds like a concept for Spyderco New York.

It wouldn't be too tough to manufacture a folder with those characteristics.
How about an Opinel with a thumb stud and a removable pocket clip for outside-of-NYC NY'ers? Heck, Opinels are so cheap, a tool and die shop could buy them in bulk, mod em, resell them just as filler work for a few dollars more than the factory version, and still make money. Maybe even burn the Statue of Liberty into the handle while they're at it.

 

[The Z]

As a NYC resident (Brooklyn), the only knives I feel 100% comfortable carrying are a plain old SAK and an Opinel (mine is a no. 7, 3" blade). The opinel is a locking collar model, but there is not a chance in hades that anyone could flick one open no matter how they gripped it, and it has the added bonus of locking shut.

The crackdown they are having is focused on folders, but I have a hard time imagining that I would not get in trouble for an Izula if it were to come up. While it's not a gravity knife, it could easily be called a "dangerous knife" by these whack-jobs and end up in their pocket. Not worth losing a $50 knife over.

All of that said, I have never nor do I plan on getting searched by the police, but better safe than sorry.

 

[TwinStick]

This is just another way of our Gov & A Gen to bully retailers. Just like they tried to do with firearms in NY. (If someone shot you with a S&W, then you would be able to sue S&W). This is the same idiotic logic. It got thrown out in court. But eventually, they will attatch it to a bill that everyone wants & it will get passed into law. We plan to move out of WNY when we retire. I think if they paid someone to think up more ways to make peolpe want to move out of this state, it could not be done.

 

[davide]

As a NYC resident (Brooklyn), the only knives I feel 100% comfortable carrying are a plain old SAK and an Opinel (mine is a no. 7, 3" blade). The opinel is a locking collar model, but there is not a chance in hades that anyone could flick one open no matter how they gripped it, and it has the added bonus of locking shut.

The crackdown they are having is focused on folders, but I have a hard time imagining that I would not get in trouble for an Izula if it were to come up. While it's not a gravity knife, it could easily be called a "dangerous knife" by these whack-jobs and end up in their pocket. Not worth losing a $50 knife over.

All of that said, I have never nor do I plan on getting searched by the police, but better safe than sorry.

During the winter when the air is dry my opinel no.10 is so loose that the blade flicks opens with just the slightest, sometimes inadvertent, movement. Doing this, though, the blade usually bounces back out of the open position and into a half-closed position. That's why I leave it alone until it starts getting more humid out and action is tighter.

 

[HeavyHanded]

During the winter when the air is dry my opinel no.10 is so loose that the blade flicks opens with just the slightest, sometimes inadvertent, movement. Doing this, though, the blade usually bounces back out of the open position and into a half-closed position. That's why I leave it alone until it starts getting more humid out and action is tighter.

Your Opinel is OK anyway - it doesn't lock by itself when opened.