Can I force my employees to carry knifes?

I do not require my employees or family to carry a weapon, but they must have a knife as a tool, not only for their safety, but those of others including animals that we work with on the ranch. I do not want to be around or work with someone who is not interested in the safety and convenience of others.

One of my questions when a man or woman applies for work on the ranch is to see what kind of knife they are carrying, if they don't have a knife for reasons of economics, I provide one for them. Should one say I don't believe in carrying a knife, he would not be hired.
 
If a business is allowed to tell their employees that the CAN'T carry a knife, then they are allowed to tell them that they must carry one.
If it goes one way, then it goes the other way too.

I have been an employer for almost 30 years. That is 100%, completely, entirely, false.

Use your head. A McDonald's restaurant says "we do not permit the carrying of knives at our business".

In your world, another McDonald's franchise is owned by a knife nut, and that store says "we require all employees to carry a knife".

Not happening.

If the job requires it, you can require an employee to carry a cutting device, one that wouldn't readily be construed as having the capability of being turned into a commonly recognized weapon. (I put in commonly recognized as I know the tactical group here recognizes that a popsicle stick or a wad of Playdough could indeed be a weapon in the right hands...)

One of our local Home Depot stores does indeed require that the stocking guys (that have had their box cutter safety class) carry a store issued safety knife. It is part of their kit along with their apron and back protector. But they do not allow pocket knives, sheath knives, guns, tear gas, or anything else as company policy. Anything that could be used as, construed as, or imagined as a weapon is prohibited.

As with all businesses that operate within the law, anything that makes any fellow employee feel threatened or unsafe is prohibited. The legal implications of requiring employees to carry knives as opposed to cutting instruments such as safety cutters, scissors, strap cutters, etc., is staggering.

I see folks here that cut themselves sharpening a knife. Who knows how many cut themselves when actually using one other than testing it out on paper and hair to see how sharp it is? And we assume ourselves to experts in the field of knife handling.

I don't know what the OP's business will be, but I would love to hear what his insurance company would think about requiring employees to carry a razor sharp, hollow ground, lock back knife like a Lady Bug for their work instead of a safety knife and blunt nose scissors.

Robert
 
Of course you can. No question. You and the employees are entering into a private contract. You pay them money (salary) and in return, they agree to perform certain tasks (job description), which includes carrying a knife.

Hell, you can simply hire people to stand around and play with knives all day, if you wanted to. What if I loved butterfly knives so much that i wanted to hire 5 people to do nothing but stand around all day and open and close them for my amusement? No problem. In your case, it is merely part of what they being paid to do.
 
I knife (fixed blade/1.5" sheep's foot blade) is a tool routinely issued to certain telephone company employees and necessary for their jobs. They routinely walk into "no knives" areas of public buildings with those tools and no one says a word. (And BIG screwdrivers too!)
 
I have been an employer for almost 30 years. That is 100%, completely, entirely, false.

Use your head. A McDonald's restaurant says "we do not permit the carrying of knives at our business".

In your world, another McDonald's franchise is owned by a knife nut, and that store says "we require all employees to carry a knife".

Not happening.

If the job requires it, you can require an employee to carry a cutting device, one that wouldn't readily be construed as having the capability of being turned into a commonly recognized weapon. (I put in commonly recognized as I know the tactical group here recognizes that a popsicle stick or a wad of Playdough could indeed be a weapon in the right hands...)

One of our local Home Depot stores does indeed require that the stocking guys (that have had their box cutter safety class) carry a store issued safety knife. It is part of their kit along with their apron and back protector. But they do not allow pocket knives, sheath knives, guns, tear gas, or anything else as company policy. Anything that could be used as, construed as, or imagined as a weapon is prohibited.

As with all businesses that operate within the law, anything that makes any fellow employee feel threatened or unsafe is prohibited. The legal implications of requiring employees to carry knives as opposed to cutting instruments such as safety cutters, scissors, strap cutters, etc., is staggering.

I see folks here that cut themselves sharpening a knife. Who knows how many cut themselves when actually using one other than testing it out on paper and hair to see how sharp it is? And we assume ourselves to experts in the field of knife handling.

I don't know what the OP's business will be, but I would love to hear what his insurance company would think about requiring employees to carry a razor sharp, hollow ground, lock back knife like a Lady Bug for their work instead of a safety knife and blunt nose scissors.

Robert

The problem with the above is that you're talking about franchises. Franchises are different in that the store owner "buys in" to the corporation, and is subject to their rules and regulations. So you're correct that it's not gonna' happen in a McDonalds or a Home Depot. But it can happen in a privately owned business. Whether or not it's a good idea is a totally different issue.
 
The problem with the above is that you're talking about franchises. Franchises are different in that the store owner "buys in" to the corporation, and is subject to their rules and regulations. So you're correct that it's not gonna' happen in a McDonalds or a Home Depot. But it can happen in a privately owned business. Whether or not it's a good idea is a totally different issue.

You know, I almost said, "business A" and "business B" since so many times people don't keep things in context.

Frame my response in direct reference to this direct quote, and remember my entire reponse:

If a business is allowed to tell their employees that the CAN'T carry a knife, then they are allowed to tell them that they must carry one.
If it goes one way, then it goes the other way too.

Let me try again. Say business "A" (for example, a small bricklaying company, a lawn mowing company, a house painting company, a software design company, or a used car lot) says there will be no knives of any type on their premises or place of business.

That does not give the indisputable right to business "B" to have the right to require that a knife be carried.

Take some classes that are offered by your State Employment Commission. Because people work for you, doesn't give you unlimited rights to do anything you please. I have been in trouble with them more than once, and have had to take numerous classes.

In the same vein as this, suppose that my company dress code requires all people to wear clothes. Does that mean that another company has the 100% inalienable right to say "no clothes" simply because another company requires them? It's the same logic. His supposition was that if one company can ban something, that give another employer the right to require it.

If the job requires it, you can require an employee to carry a cutting device, one that wouldn't readily be construed as having the capability of being turned into a commonly recognized weapon. (I put in commonly recognized as I know the tactical group here recognizes that a popsicle stick or a wad of Playdough could indeed be a weapon in the right hands...)

One of our local Home Depot stores does indeed require that the stocking guys (that have had their box cutter safety class) carry a store issued safety knife. It is part of their kit along with their apron and back protector. But they do not allow pocket knives, sheath knives, guns, tear gas, or anything else as company policy. Anything that could be used as, construed as, or imagined as a weapon is prohibited.

Note that the qualifying caveat in my post, complete with an example, was that if a cutting instrument is required in the normal course of dispatching the required duties specified in an employee's job, they can be required to carry a cutting instrument.

You need to have your own employees... wayyy too much fun. You will say, "I require that you guys and girls bring a knife to work to open boxes, cut twine, cut tape and other duties performed by a knife."

1/3 will come with knife that is "appropriate" for the task. 1/3 will come with their favorite zombie killing battle mistress that looks like it came from a Rambo movie. This will scare some of the other folks you employ (known notoriously as "sheeple" here) and there will be complaints. But if the knife opens boxes, cuts twine, etc., you may be up against it unless you specified a knife design or size. If you did that, you might be required to supply them yourself, and as mentioned above, provide training on their use and the appropriate safety classes. The other third will be mixed, and say "I forgot" or "knives scare me... and I don't have one or know how to use it".

It will have nothing to do with the fact that you (as opposed to your point of being a franchise) are a small or large business. Read my whole post; if an employee feels threatened or unsafe for any reason, even if it is unfounded, they have a legitimate complaint in the eyes of the law. The results from your State labor board may or may not find grounds for your discipline, but there is nothing like listening to your ex employee twist up everything that was ever said to them into a story that Mark Twain would be proud of.

I have been there too many times.

But back to my original thoughts. Just because someone bans something somewhere in employment land, it does not give the right to other employers to require it as part of their employment. Don't think of that as a knife-centric statement; think of all things employee.

Robert
 
My point was that as a non-franchise business owner it can be laid out in the terms of employment if a knife is a necessary tool for the employee to carry to fulfill their work related duties that, therefore, it is a piece of required equipment. This is similar to enforced dress code policies or tools that a freelance worker is expected to supply themselves. If the prospective employee doesn't like knives or what have you, they don't need to sign on for the job. Just like if a prospective employee doesn't want to cut their hair (Cabela's has a ear-length or shorter policy for men, for instance) then they can turn down the employment. But as we both stated, if the tool is going to be made a requirement then suitable training and guidelines must be provided to avoid the bulk of liability in case of an "incident".
 
My employer can't "force" me to do anything. There are conditions of employment that I agree to--or I go work somewhere else. My employer can hold me to these conditions--and fire me if I don't meet them. But there's no force involved.

So you can't force anyone to carry a knife...or to be un-knived or unarmed.
 
I'm not too sure about the laws, and if you really want to enact something like this the first person you should be speaking to is a lawyer.

That being said, if you want people to carry knives I would say have a policy requiring cutting tools on the job at all times, provide box cutters for free, and don't make any policies against knives so if they want to carry one they can. Anything stricter would be excessive IMO.
 
obviously im not gonna physically force anyone to do anything they dont want but Im asking if they dont do what I want, can I legally fire them?




My employer can't "force" me to do anything. There are conditions of employment that I agree to--or I go work somewhere else. My employer can hold me to these conditions--and fire me if I don't meet them. But there's no force involved.

So you can't force anyone to carry a knife...or to be un-knived or unarmed.
 
Here in Texas, you would have a fine time firing someone unless it was PROVEN that they stole something that belonged to the company, PROVEN that they were violent against another employee, PROVEN that they committed sexual harassment, or just weren't coming to work.

For any other offenses, it is where I used to get screwed up. You have to have policies in place, enforce a couseling/warning system with a witness present and have the employee sign that such had taken place, and you have to have three such sessions before you can legally terminate them. And while it still may be a legal termination, if they get enough sympathy from the unemployment board, you may still wind up paying part of their unemployment. All of this has been a hard lesson for me.

It still takes three times of violation, but if you wanted your employee to carry a certain piece of equipment that was vital and necessary to the performance of their job, it much be written into your employee manual, and reflected in a job description/responsibilities/duties sheet that was presented to and signed at the time you offered them employment.

Policies that are introduced or modified, then enforced after the original time of employment can be really sticky when trying to enforce them.

Speaking as a Texas employer, you must have a great company procedures manual and a strong, clear, job description for each position you have inside the company.

So yes, in Texas, you could indeed fire someone for not carrying a piece of equipment that was identified as vital to the job and required that it be carried daily while dispatching the normal duties described in the employee's job description. Three documented, signed and dated counseling sessions and you can fire them. I have had to fire carpenters that wouldn't bring a saw to work every day, and that is how it is done.

However, if they pinch a fellow worker's ass and someone sees it, you can fire them on the spot!

Robert
 
great info, thanks for the reply!


Here in Texas, you would have a fine time firing someone unless it was PROVEN that they stole something that belonged to the company, PROVEN that they were violent against another employee, PROVEN that they committed sexual harassment, or just weren't coming to work.

For any other offenses, it is where I used to get screwed up. You have to have policies in place, enforce a couseling/warning system with a witness present and have the employee sign that such had taken place, and you have to have three such sessions before you can legally terminate them. And while it still may be a legal termination, if they get enough sympathy from the unemployment board, you may still wind up paying part of their unemployment. All of this has been a hard lesson for me.

It still takes three times of violation, but if you wanted your employee to carry a certain piece of equipment that was vital and necessary to the performance of their job, it much be written into your employee manual, and reflected in a job description/responsibilities/duties sheet that was presented to and signed at the time you offered them employment.

Policies that are introduced or modified, then enforced after the original time of employment can be really sticky when trying to enforce them.

Speaking as a Texas employer, you must have a great company procedures manual and a strong, clear, job description for each position you have inside the company.

So yes, in Texas, you could indeed fire someone for not carrying a piece of equipment that was identified as vital to the job and required that it be carried daily while dispatching the normal duties described in the employee's job description. Three documented, signed and dated counseling sessions and you can fire them. I have had to fire carpenters that wouldn't bring a saw to work every day, and that is how it is done.

However, if they pinch a fellow worker's ass and someone sees it, you can fire them on the spot!

Robert
 
In the same vein as this, suppose that my company dress code requires all people to wear clothes. Does that mean that another company has the 100% inalienable right to say "no clothes" simply because another company requires them? It's the same logic. His supposition was that if one company can ban something, that give another employer the right to require it.

I'm sure there are strip clubs with that exact policy, and people would be fired for refusing to comply with the "no clothes" policy.




IIRC there was a guy on one of the forums who was excited that his job required all employees to carry two sharp folding knives at all times while working - he worked as a landscaper.
 
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