Can I remove the "blood grooves" on my knife??

A

AlonzoMosely

Joined
Aug 18, 2002
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So, I've had my MOD Hornet for a couple of weeks now, and the handle on this knife is just perfect, the lock-up is great, and it is very well made. Here's the thing - I don't like the silly blood grooves with draining holes. The whole ninja armchair commando thing is just not for me. Would I be crazy to try to fill the grooves with JB weld or something to take away any negative impressions created by this "deanimation" feature?
 
AlonzoMosely said:
So, I've had my MOD Hornet for a couple of weeks now, and the handle on this knife is just perfect, the lock-up is great, and it is very well made. Here's the thing - I don't like the silly blood grooves with draining holes. The whole ninja armchair commando thing is just not for me. Would I be crazy to try to fill the grooves with JB weld or something to take away any negative impressions created by this "deanimation" feature?
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I would suggest you leave them as they are. Any attempt to remove these essential blood grooves will be reported and you may end up being covertly deanimated!
 
They're not blood grooves, they're called fullers. Some say that they were invented to save expensive steel (that's of course not an issue anymore), others believe that they were put on blades to control their balance and stiffness (that's what they're used for today).

So they do serve a purpose, but probably not on a rather small folding knife.

They have nothing to do with that "blood spray control" nonsense and they don't cause someone stabbed with a grooved blade to bleed out faster. :rolleyes:
 
I would suggest you leave them as they are. Any attempt to remove these essential blood grooves will be reported and you may end up being covertly deanimated!
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LMAO!! :D

You could ,of course, fill them with JB WELD but you would wreck the aesthetics of the knife and when you decide it looks like total crap good luck getting that stuff outta there.

Your other option is to grind the blade till it is flush with the grooves thus removing them. But then you'd have a folding paring knife.

And if you ever want to sell it after the mods it's likely you'll not find many takers.

Best bet is just to learn to like them and forget the "deanimation" aspect of this wholly aesthetic feature.

Hope this helps!
 
They're not blood grooves, they're called fullers.
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Exactly. The purpose of a fuller is to make the blade stronger.

It seems counter-intuitive that removing material will make a part stronger. But it does. Consider, for example, the I-Beams commonly used in construction:

ibeam.gif


They're less expensive than a solid beam would be, true. They're lighter than a standard beam would be, true. But, they're also stronger than a solid beam would be too.

You can see this in other parts. Here is an engine connecting rod.

ibeamConnectingRod.jpg


Notice the "blood grove?" That has nothing to do with controlling blood spray in covert deanimation missions and everything to do with actually making the part stronger.

You can prove this to yourself very easily. Take a sheet of paper, 8.5x11" more or less. Grasp it between your thumb and forefinger along one of the shorter edges. Try and hold it out horizontally. It droops down, doesn't it? Now, fold it in half the long way, then make two more folds each about 1/2" from the center fold. Viewed from the edge, your paper should now look like this:

---------\/----------

In other words, it should have a blood grove in the middle. Now try and hold it out horizontally. It's easy isn't it?

That blood grove in the paper doesn't just control blood splatter in the event of a covert paper cut. It actually makes the paper stronger. In fact, you can probably stack some paperclips or some other small weight out on the end of the paper and it will still stay horizontal. So, the paper that, without the fuller couldn't support its own weight now bears substantial weight.
 
That isn't entirely correct.

I-Beams and connecting rods are made with an "I" profile because this is the shape that offers the best combination of strength, weight, and ease of manufacturing. A solid steel beam with the same exterior dimensions of a steel I beam would be far stronger, but much, much heavier.

I shaped profiles don't provide a higher ultimate strength, but do provide a much better strength to weight ratio.

The I profile maintains a surprisingly high level of strength and stiffness because the two surfaces which are left solid are the two most highly-loaded surfaces in a beam element, usually the top and bottom.

The paper example just isn't applicable, because you aren't removing any material. The paper still weighs the same as it did, it just has a better load-bearing geometry.

A better example would be testing a steel beam under load and them milling some grooves along its length and testing it again. It will not hold as much weight.
 
Quiet Storm said:
They have nothing to do with that "blood spray control" nonsense
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Alonzo, don't fall for the kind of silliness above. Oh sure, Quiet Storm can make his claims, but after you remove that sentry and the uncontrolled blood spray completely ruins your new 5.11 ensemble and soaks your Oakley glasses, will he pay the cleaning bill? I'm guessing no.
 
I love this forum! Nowhere else can you learn so much while laughing your a** off at the same time...

So, I'm understanding the groove thing better - what about the "blood draining holes" drilled all the way through the groove on the knife?
 
IDK, but It's a really good place to have crap get stuck in.

I don't think filling it will take away from aesthetics that much, I think it could go with out. Try using clear epoxy and adding the glow-in-the-dark powder. :cool:
 
fishbulb said:
That isn't entirely correct.

I-Beams and connecting rods are made with an "I" profile because this is the shape that offers the best combination of strength, weight, and ease of manufacturing. A solid steel beam with the same exterior dimensions of a steel I beam would be far stronger, but much, much heavier.

I shaped profiles don't provide a higher ultimate strength, but do provide a much better strength to weight ratio.

The I profile maintains a surprisingly high level of strength and stiffness because the two surfaces which are left solid are the two most highly-loaded surfaces in a beam element, usually the top and bottom.

The paper example just isn't applicable, because you aren't removing any material. The paper still weighs the same as it did, it just has a better load-bearing geometry.

A better example would be testing a steel beam under load and them milling some grooves along its length and testing it again. It will not hold as much weight.
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That, too, is only part of the answer. Breaking strength isn't the only factor. Load and the deflection the load creates in the beam are much of what an I beam is about. So the folded paper's STIFFNESS under load is very much an example of the fuller's effect. This enters into moments of inertia as they are called in materials engineering.

Solid beams/objects are much easier to deflect/bend than hollow circles (pipes) and I-beams of the same cross sectional area.

Phil
 
Jerry Busse has a prototype called the Grooved Fighter, which has a lot of fullering: to achieve the best weight/strength ratio. Check out the photos on the Busse forum.

I don't understand why you would drill holes as well.

David
 
Alonzo none of this tripe is important. The point is that that knife is evil, it will taint your life and your soul. Send it to me and I will deanimate for you observing all of the proper deanimation rites.
 
The groove and the holes are purely ornamental. They are not big enough to do any serious lightening or balance adjustment. They have no tactical purpose. They won't effect how the knife works. If anybody ever asks just say that they are part of the auxiliary opening option. Kind of like having a nail-nick in a pocket knife.

The knife is reasonably designed for utility purposes. It needs no apologies.
 
The holes are to allow liquid in the grooves to evaporate faster. At least that’s what MOD says. They call them “Drying Holes”. :)
 
phatch said:
Solid beams/objects are much easier to deflect/bend than hollow circles (pipes) and I-beams of the same cross sectional area.

Phil
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This is interesting, perhaps I've misunderstood.

I agree that for a given length an appropriately formed I or O shaped element will deform less under its own weight compared to a solid sample. For example, given a 15' beam supported at one end will deflect less under it's own weight if it has an I profile compared to a solid one with the same exterior dimensions.

Also, for a given cross-sectional area a part will be stiffer if it has an I or O shape rather than a solid shape.

However, for a given set of exterior dimensions a solid shape will be both stiffer and stronger.

A given shaft or beam will not become stiffer if you bore out the center or cut grooves on the side. The stiffness per weight may increase, but the ultimate stiffness will go down. This is what happens when you mill or forge a fuller into a knife blade.
 
I beams (and other narror ridged structures) have a high strength than one would expect for their mass, but are more vunerable to torque stress. That's why I beams are used in pair. The fullers on swords and knives aren't really substantial enough (proportionate to the geometry) to affect stiffness. Better examples (from both nature and human stuff) are clam sheels and corrogated cardboard. Corrogated roofs are an example of groove making metal stiffer - thin metal, BIG grooves.

I think fullers are simply for weight/balance and aesthetics.

Material science... :cool:
 
The paper example just isn't applicable, because you aren't removing any material.
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True. But it's a simple demonstration that anyone can do in the comfort of their own home and get some sense that the shape of something can dramatically affect its strength is true.
 
Fishbulb,

We are comparing apples and oranges.

You are correct when you compare total exterior dimensions. I am correct when you compare areas of a cross section: the method of computing moments of inertia. A solid object in cross section has most of its mass close the center of gravity in comparison to an I beam of the same cross sectional area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia

Read down to the section on "Area Moment of Inertia" for a very brief indicator of how this works.

Phil
 
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