Can the S110V steel be improved upon?

Mikael Andersson said:
I mean like S35VN is an improvement upon S35V will we see a S115VN or something like that in the future?
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S35VN is S35VN, there is no S35V.

About S110V, the next step would be S125V, but hardly anyone will touch it because it's both expensive and a bear to work with.
 
Ankerson said:
S35VN is S35VN, there is no S35V.

About S110V, the next step would be S125V, but hardly anyone will touch it because it's both expensive and a bear to work with.
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It's a spelling error that I quickly corrected so was that all?

And from what I have been reading it's very difficult to get a good heat treat on S125V.
 
We could say S35VN is an upgrade from S30V. But similar designations can be deceptive. Each of these has to be understood in its own right.

Can S110V be tweaked? Of course, but in which direction is up to the manufacturer. These "upgrades" don't follow a simple pattern common to all.
 
Ankerson said:
S125V is it, but with the special handling that it takes and with the extreme wear resistance along with the expense it's very prohibitive.
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Don't respond so damn fast I don't have time to correct and update my posts, heh.

From what I have read it's very difficult to get a good heat treat on S125V.
 
Mikael Andersson said:
Don't respond so damn fast I don't have time to correct and update my posts, heh.

From what I have read it's very difficult to get a good heat treat on S125V.
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It's hard to work with all around, nothing easy about S125V.
 
Improvement or not is depending on what are you expected for.

S110V might be a big improvement over steel like S30V if you looking for wear resistance. But at the same time it also significantly decreased at toughness, edge strength and sharpenability.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
We could say S35VN is an upgrade from S30V. But similar designations can be deceptive. Each of these has to be understood in its own right.

Can S110V be tweaked? Of course, but in which direction is up to the manufacturer. These "upgrades" don't follow a simple pattern common to all.
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That's the problem, S110V is a mold steel like the one before it, S90V.

So if we go backwards, we are at S90V, the steel S110V replaced.

Go up and we are at S125V with all of it's difficulties working with it.

Don't know why S110V would need to be improved though other than maybe a new way to roll it out so they won't lose such a large percentage of material.

S110V is really a pretty well balanced steel already as long as it's HT properly for the use at hand, but then that can be a rather large variable.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
We could say S35VN is an upgrade from S30V. But similar designations can be deceptive. Each of these has to be understood in its own right.

Can S110V be tweaked? Of course, but in which direction is up to the manufacturer. These "upgrades" don't follow a simple pattern common to all.
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And it depends on what one means by "improvement" of a steel. You cant really make a steel better or worse unless one is specific about which of it's many characteristics one is talking about.

Say they took S110V, didn't change a thing from a metallurgical standpoint, and just cut its price in half. That would be an improvement, as far as Im concerned.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
We could say S35VN is an upgrade from S30V. But similar designations can be deceptive. Each of these has to be understood in its own right.

Can S110V be tweaked? Of course, but in which direction is up to the manufacturer. These "upgrades" don't follow a simple pattern common to all.
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Simple is a key term. I think of all steels and their respective heat treats as trade offs. There is no perfect steel. tweak one thing and you are likely trading off another quality that you might or might not desire. Simple it is not.

Mikael Andersson said:
You are still trolling strong I see.
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Nope. How was he or I to know you just made a mistake. Just agreeing with a man who has some of the most comprehensive testing of steels and thus possibly the largest amount of knowledge of steels on the forum. You should go look up his testing in the Reviews and Testing subforum. A lot of questions can be answered in those threads.
 
S35VN may be an upgrade but it is my understanding that it was created to improve the grindability of the steel and make it easier to work with for the maker while having the performance of S30V and that the end knife user would have a hard time telling the difference. Some claim S35VN is easier to sharpen. I cannot tell a difference and I have used both a bunch. The difference between S90V and S110V is more apparent but also still subtle when you put things in perspective. They both stay sharp way longer than VG10. Again, that has been my experience. There is also 10V, 15V, K294, and K390. These are all steels that some may consider an upgrade and some may consider a downgrade. These steels are not easy to sharpen for a beginner or for someone with inadequate equipment. In another thread you said you sharpen with natural stones if I remember correctly. If that is the case S110V may be a downgrade from S30V. Get some diamond stones and most these steels sharpen easy enough but they still aren't what I call entry level from a sharpening standpoint. There is S125V and there is even S150V. There has been a prototype Spyderco Military made in S150V but for multiple reasons it was deemed too difficult to work with in a production setting just like S125V was. Read about Phil Wilson, these steels are his thing. He won't mess with S125V due to it's challenges. Then there are super alloys like Rex121 or high tungsten alloys like Maxamet. These steel are still new to knives so only time will tell if they catch on as practical blade steels.

I hope this link is ok to post.

http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/articles/a_real_life_knife_test.pdf
 
I was actually hoping to hear from some knife maker who makes knives in S110V and what they would like to see improved about the steel.
 
Mikael Andersson said:
I was actually hoping to hear from some knife maker who makes knives in S110V and what they would like to see improved about the steel.
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They are far and few between. ;)

There are a couple here on BF that will work with it and actually know what they are doing, do their own Heat treating, have the proper equipment etc.
 
S110v is s110v. Now depending on who makes the knife and how they grind it and heat treat makes a difference too.

I get what your saying as far as make up goes what could he added or taken away to make whatever attributes go up, etc. The short answer is find what you need most in a steel and look at others vs trying to change the composition of a steel

Op if you want the most out of a steel ,find a custom maker tell them what your expectations are ,what you'll he using the knife for and allow them to make a knife tailor made for your needs.
 
Mikael Andersson said:
I was actually hoping to hear from some knife maker who makes knives in S110V and what they would like to see improved about the steel.
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Then you would be better off asking knife makers. Seems like the General Knife Makers Discussion subform would be a good place to ask.
 
Mikael Andersson said:
I mean like S35VN is an improvement upon S30V will we see a S115VN or something like that in the future?
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these were the first CPM knives with niobium\columbium.

Perhaps there will be some other steel created by CPM in the next decade with increased amounts.

maybe vanadium could be replaced by niobium.

S90N then stead of S90V so to speak.

Who knows?

knives play such a small role on the grand scale of the steel industry.

would it be worth the cost for small improvements?
 
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