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Can the small fixed blade really replace a folder?
- Thread starter bart
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I find this thread interesting also!
First, let me clear something up.... My intention was NOT to confuse everyone!!The picture I posted above generated some Emails from people regarding the size and model of the knife. The Knife I carry is my Small Tac/Utility, I mistakenly called it a Small Hunter. The knife pictured is my Medium Tactical, a larger knife. The Small version IS neck knife size at <7.5" AOL with a 3.5" blade. I guess the knife in the picture DOES look rather large and apologize for not posting the EXACT picture. I didn't have one loaded on my website to link to
Now, how about making Kydex sheaths JUST for pocket carry?? Maybe shaped to fill the pocket, eliminate movement and keep the knife aligned for quick deployment?? Possibly with a small compartment to carry other stuff? Any other considerations?? Does anyone already do this?? I think for myself and my line of smaller neck size knives this might be a popular option.
Neil
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Talonite, new pics, knives in stock!
blackwoodknives.com
[This message has been edited by Dr.Lathe (edited 06-20-2000).]
First, let me clear something up.... My intention was NOT to confuse everyone!!The picture I posted above generated some Emails from people regarding the size and model of the knife. The Knife I carry is my Small Tac/Utility, I mistakenly called it a Small Hunter. The knife pictured is my Medium Tactical, a larger knife. The Small version IS neck knife size at <7.5" AOL with a 3.5" blade. I guess the knife in the picture DOES look rather large and apologize for not posting the EXACT picture. I didn't have one loaded on my website to link to
Now, how about making Kydex sheaths JUST for pocket carry?? Maybe shaped to fill the pocket, eliminate movement and keep the knife aligned for quick deployment?? Possibly with a small compartment to carry other stuff? Any other considerations?? Does anyone already do this?? I think for myself and my line of smaller neck size knives this might be a popular option.
Neil
------------------
Talonite, new pics, knives in stock!
blackwoodknives.com
[This message has been edited by Dr.Lathe (edited 06-20-2000).]
I had Chuck Hallberg do a sheath along those lines for a knife he made for my daughter, Neil. I went with leather though, thinking it would be softer in the pocket. It's basically a slip sheath with an attached boot clip. Works really well. I've got one coming for me in a couple of weeks (with some 3V inside).
I could give you a more complete evaluation then.
Jack
Jack
The problem with the "safety issue" of only opening a knife partway is that most knives don't want to stay there. A knife with a detent, rolling lock, or backlock will probably try to pull itself closed when partially open, potentially pinching your finger between the blade and handle, and if you are cutting anything larger than a thread, the cutting action will tend to force the blade open and locked. I think it's better to open the knife fully, and use it the way it's designed to be used. If you choke up on the handle, and extend your index finger along the spine of the blade, you can have a great deal of control, without worrying about the knife suddenly opening or closing on you.
- Joined
- Jun 23, 1999
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The drift here seems to be that the technology in small fixed blades might possibly replace the folder, and indeed, if the sheath is right, I think its actually easier to replace a sheath knife than some folders with pocket clips, but this also depends on things like carry options for the fixed blade.
Bottom line though is that in many jurisdictions (for example the entire state of California), the fixed blade can NOT ever replace the folder if you want to both a) carry concealed, and b) remain legal while doing so. Only a folder can be concealed legally in CA, so unless you are somewhere PC to carry an unconcealed fixed blade (most farming communities, but definately not SF or LA), the folder is really the only option.
Bottom line though is that in many jurisdictions (for example the entire state of California), the fixed blade can NOT ever replace the folder if you want to both a) carry concealed, and b) remain legal while doing so. Only a folder can be concealed legally in CA, so unless you are somewhere PC to carry an unconcealed fixed blade (most farming communities, but definately not SF or LA), the folder is really the only option.
I had a buch typed and hitsome crazy key and lost it!?!?!?!!?!?!??!
Here are the high points:
I did not mention it, but Matt brings up a good point about legality in some areas.
I need to try some pocket sheaths. I have a Perkins knife on the way, but I think it's 2" blade and short handle won't be up to the tough cutting chores of my Sebenza. I will see how it goes with pocket carry, though.
Those SUB knives by Griffith may be good due to the large handle and small blade.
Keep the ideas coming.
Oh, and the half closed folder idea is a rarely used, but handy benefit. Works like a letter opener or line cutter.
-Bart
Here are the high points:
I did not mention it, but Matt brings up a good point about legality in some areas.
I need to try some pocket sheaths. I have a Perkins knife on the way, but I think it's 2" blade and short handle won't be up to the tough cutting chores of my Sebenza. I will see how it goes with pocket carry, though.
Those SUB knives by Griffith may be good due to the large handle and small blade.
Keep the ideas coming.
Oh, and the half closed folder idea is a rarely used, but handy benefit. Works like a letter opener or line cutter.
-Bart
- Joined
- May 26, 1999
- Messages
- 1,964
A Kydex sheath that's just for pocket carry sounds very interesting. I've been experimenting lately with making leather sheaths that are specifically for pocket carry.
One idea is that you don't need a large sheath if the knife is carried in your pocket. If your pocket is relatively large and tight, you can use a very small sheath that basically just covers the blade. Such a small sheath is very comfortable.
Of course, a normal sheath will cover a portion of the handle as well as the blade so the knife doesn't fall out. However, if the knife is in your pocket, then the pocket itself will essentially do the job of a sheath and hold the knife stable.
The sheaths I've made are very primative: stuff that any Joe can do. If you want something more sophisticated, adding a clip or shaping the sheath to fit your pocket sound like great ideas to try out.
One idea is that you don't need a large sheath if the knife is carried in your pocket. If your pocket is relatively large and tight, you can use a very small sheath that basically just covers the blade. Such a small sheath is very comfortable.
Of course, a normal sheath will cover a portion of the handle as well as the blade so the knife doesn't fall out. However, if the knife is in your pocket, then the pocket itself will essentially do the job of a sheath and hold the knife stable.
The sheaths I've made are very primative: stuff that any Joe can do. If you want something more sophisticated, adding a clip or shaping the sheath to fit your pocket sound like great ideas to try out.
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
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- Oct 9, 1998
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- 75,750
Run a web search for "slip sheath"
There's illegally carrying a concealed weapon, there's conspicuous displaying of an enormous sword-like object on your belt and walking around looking like you think you're Rambo ... and there's sticking a sheath knife in your pocket with the pommel sticking out, which seems to have about the same effect on the natives as clipping a folder in your pocket.
The Wedge on my belt with my keys doesn't seem to be panicking the natives, either.
-Cougar :{)
P.S. You might try a search for "pocket sheath" too; not everybody calls them slip sheaths.
:{)
[This message has been edited by Cougar Allen (edited 06-21-2000).]
There's illegally carrying a concealed weapon, there's conspicuous displaying of an enormous sword-like object on your belt and walking around looking like you think you're Rambo ... and there's sticking a sheath knife in your pocket with the pommel sticking out, which seems to have about the same effect on the natives as clipping a folder in your pocket.
The Wedge on my belt with my keys doesn't seem to be panicking the natives, either.
-Cougar :{)
P.S. You might try a search for "pocket sheath" too; not everybody calls them slip sheaths.
:{)
[This message has been edited by Cougar Allen (edited 06-21-2000).]
Anybody ever try a Dozier personal for this type carry?
http://www.4knives.net/dozier/dk-pesym.html
-Bart
http://www.4knives.net/dozier/dk-pesym.html
-Bart
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<quote>Matt, in SF you can just has to be 3.5" single edge blade or less.</quote>
Smoke, I don't believe this is true. It must ben 3.5 inches or less to be legal even when carried unconcealed. No fixed blade of any length is legal in CA if it is concealed. I don't know if a pommel sticking out of a pocket would be considered concealed or unconcealed carry? A small sheath knife worn on the belt is considered unconcealed, and yes, it would be legal if under 3.5 inches, but you would get a lot of strange looks, and when you are trying to function in a white collar environment, you don't need those looks.
On the slip sheath subject... Tried them. Found you have to have the right combination of sheath shape, material, size, and pocket shape to make it work reliably.
Smoke, I don't believe this is true. It must ben 3.5 inches or less to be legal even when carried unconcealed. No fixed blade of any length is legal in CA if it is concealed. I don't know if a pommel sticking out of a pocket would be considered concealed or unconcealed carry? A small sheath knife worn on the belt is considered unconcealed, and yes, it would be legal if under 3.5 inches, but you would get a lot of strange looks, and when you are trying to function in a white collar environment, you don't need those looks.
On the slip sheath subject... Tried them. Found you have to have the right combination of sheath shape, material, size, and pocket shape to make it work reliably.
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People don't seen to mind a small fixed-blade carried openly on the belt as long as it is something small and pretty. I have actually reduced my own fear of social stigma to the point of carrying a 4" fixed blade on weekends. I have not been loathed by anyone though I expect to be some day. I have even carried a small (2") David Boye fixed blade to work on occasion. One person noticed but thought the knife was interesting when I showed it to them. I couldn't do that every day though. Today, all I am carrying is a M-2 Mini AFCK. The Mad Dog is in the truck.
There is no denying the convenience of a good folding knife though, especially one with a superb lock. I don't feel like I am giving up much strength when I carry the Apogee.
So fixed blades have the edge in strength and ergonomics in my book, but folders get the star for convenience and inconspicuousness.
[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 06-26-2000).]
There is no denying the convenience of a good folding knife though, especially one with a superb lock. I don't feel like I am giving up much strength when I carry the Apogee.
So fixed blades have the edge in strength and ergonomics in my book, but folders get the star for convenience and inconspicuousness.
[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 06-26-2000).]
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
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Well, *I* deny it.
-Cougar :{)
- Joined
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You'd get no argument from me that, ultimately, a small fixed blade in a good belt sheath is more convenient than any folder.
I'm just starting a new job in the heart of the San Francisco financial district. The look is called "business casual", and that means my usual collection of jeans or BDUs and field jackets is out! I suppose if the sheath were elegant enough, it might fly, but for now, I'm going with the most PC approach I can muster. That means a folder, but I some symbol of rebellion. I'll refuse to wear pants with creases!
I'm just starting a new job in the heart of the San Francisco financial district. The look is called "business casual", and that means my usual collection of jeans or BDUs and field jackets is out! I suppose if the sheath were elegant enough, it might fly, but for now, I'm going with the most PC approach I can muster. That means a folder, but I some symbol of rebellion. I'll refuse to wear pants with creases!
Cougar-
Tell me what kind of sheath you have that is as easy to access the knife and replace it one handed, without looking as my Sebebnza. Oh, and it has to be low profile enough to carry in a wedding or other very social setting like I have the Sebenza. Knives like a Nealy do work great if wearing a sport jacket, but not nearly as well with my typical dress.
-Bart
Tell me what kind of sheath you have that is as easy to access the knife and replace it one handed, without looking as my Sebebnza. Oh, and it has to be low profile enough to carry in a wedding or other very social setting like I have the Sebenza. Knives like a Nealy do work great if wearing a sport jacket, but not nearly as well with my typical dress.
-Bart
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
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You can see some pix of puukko sheaths at www.chaicutlery.com The sheath covers part of the handle so it has a wide mouth.
I described another kind of sheath that works earlier in this thread ... I hope that description is clear. The back piece of the sheath extends up to make the belt loop, all one piece -- so you can slide the blade right down it into the sheath.
About the only kind of sheath that really won't work is the leather-covered wood kind that only covers the blade ... that narrow slot for the blade would be hard to find without looking. Even that style of sheath could work if you belled the mouth.
Everything in life takes time to learn ... maybe you don't remember how long it took to master manipulating a folder....
-Cougar :{)
I described another kind of sheath that works earlier in this thread ... I hope that description is clear. The back piece of the sheath extends up to make the belt loop, all one piece -- so you can slide the blade right down it into the sheath.
About the only kind of sheath that really won't work is the leather-covered wood kind that only covers the blade ... that narrow slot for the blade would be hard to find without looking. Even that style of sheath could work if you belled the mouth.
Everything in life takes time to learn ... maybe you don't remember how long it took to master manipulating a folder....
-Cougar :{)
I got the Perkins today, Littlewing #6. It is SUPER small, but nice. Fantastic for the money ($35). I will post a review after I use it some.
www.perkinsknives.com
Cougar-
I want so bad for a fixed blade to be handier than my folder, but I guess I just haven't tried the right carry system yet. I make Kydex, so I am going to use some ideas from this thread. Maybe I can get it figured out.
-Bart
www.perkinsknives.com
Cougar-
I want so bad for a fixed blade to be handier than my folder, but I guess I just haven't tried the right carry system yet. I make Kydex, so I am going to use some ideas from this thread. Maybe I can get it figured out.
-Bart
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- Oct 16, 1998
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- 2,395
Cougar:
Ya, the convenience of the folder is really a different kind of convenience: social convenience. I can slip the large Apogee in my pocket and nobody gives me a hard time for being a knife nut. This knife really gives up very little in terms of strength to a fixed-blade as well. The concealability factor means I can carry a 4.25" blade even to work with me.
Still prefer fixed-blades though.
Ya, the convenience of the folder is really a different kind of convenience: social convenience. I can slip the large Apogee in my pocket and nobody gives me a hard time for being a knife nut. This knife really gives up very little in terms of strength to a fixed-blade as well. The concealability factor means I can carry a 4.25" blade even to work with me.
Still prefer fixed-blades though.
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- Jun 23, 1999
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A "social convenience" puts it very well!
It would be far harder to make a concealed sheath of the sort you could wear at a wedding while having no jacket as easy to put the knife back in as a folder. If you want one handed returns with a sheath knife, you just about have to go with something unconcealed, though I suppose there are some who can put their knives back into slip sheaths in either a front or back pocket without hardly thinking about it... Personally, I'd be real careful about how I did that...
Since this is a KNIFE REVIEW forum, and we are not really reviewing anything specific, I just popped for one of the new Boker/Bud Nealy creations (http://www.agrussell.com/boker/bo-580.html) just to see what carrying a small fixed blade felt like. Have any of you had your hands on this particular knife? What did you think? I'll start a thread about it here in this forum...
It would be far harder to make a concealed sheath of the sort you could wear at a wedding while having no jacket as easy to put the knife back in as a folder. If you want one handed returns with a sheath knife, you just about have to go with something unconcealed, though I suppose there are some who can put their knives back into slip sheaths in either a front or back pocket without hardly thinking about it... Personally, I'd be real careful about how I did that...
Since this is a KNIFE REVIEW forum, and we are not really reviewing anything specific, I just popped for one of the new Boker/Bud Nealy creations (http://www.agrussell.com/boker/bo-580.html) just to see what carrying a small fixed blade felt like. Have any of you had your hands on this particular knife? What did you think? I'll start a thread about it here in this forum...