Recommendation? Can there be too much patina?

[ithinkverydeeply]

Is there ever a point that you can get too much or too thick of a black oxide patina?

What is the best way to preserve an axe that has this kind of patina?
(I took photos of these two with some other axes that have natural black oxide patina for comparison but my question is in regards to the Zenith and the Welland Vale, Blanck Prince.)

Both the Zenith and Black Prince pictured have such a think patina on them that it is “filling in” the embossing. Both were wire wheeled to reveal the embossing at different points in time, the Black Prince more recently.

And both of them, if massaged with extra fine steel wool and oil, will render some red oxide when cleaned.
That is to say, if you rub them with steel wool and oil then wipe with a towel there will be some red oxide on the towel.

It’s hard to see in the photos but there is some red oxide in with the black oxide...

Is there point at which this kind of patina will “erode” the embossing?

What if anything should be done to this Zenith?
(I have a vintage bent/offset hewing axe haft that I would like to use and thought the Zenith would be a good candidate.)

 

[survivor45]

Well I don’t have any axes with fancy embossing.
But that said I let the axe tell me what it wants done to it.
I’ll first use the wire wheel on my bench grinder. And knock of all the loose stuff. Then I’ll slather it with a mixture of ATF and kerosene. Or even just WD-40. Then let it sit for 24 hours (or until I get back to that project). And repeat the process.
Wire wheel and oil. If I’m gentle my wire wheel won’t knock off the patina. And no bare steel will show through.
Once I’m happy with the look I rub down the head with Johnson’s past wax.

 

[Hickory n steel]

With the thick scaly stuff ( it's actually black looking red rust ) I wire wheel it then lightly scrub those areas with some 220 sandpaper.
Just lightly to knock it off then back to the wire wheel.
Don't bear down though, just use some care.

Just do this on the spots of thick scale.

 

[Square_peg]

Wire wheel. Light sanding to remove some scale. More wire wheel.

 

[ithinkverydeeply]

Thanks for the great input guys!

A couple points made about just wire brushing the thick scale areas.
Am I wrong that on those two axes, it’s just about all thick scale?

 

[Hickory n steel]

Thanks for the great input guys!

A couple points made about just wire brushing the thick scale areas.
Am I wrong that on those two axes, it’s just about all thick scale?

You'll know for sure with the light sandpaper scrubbing.

 

[Square_peg]

Am I wrong that on those two axes, it’s just about all thick scale?

Can't be certain without holding it my hand. But with others I've had it was thick scale. Here's one I did a couple months back. Heavy scale. In the 1st photo I've already went after it hard with a knotted steel cup brush on an angle grinder. In the second pic is after I sanded it.

I went gentle with a worn flap disc. Tried to stop as soon as the scale was gone.

 

[ithinkverydeeply]

Can't be certain without holding it my hand. But with others I've had it was thick scale. Here's one I did a couple months back. Heavy scale. In the 1st photo I've already went after hard with a knotted steel cup brush on an angle grinder. In the second pic is after I sanded it.

I went gentle with a worn flap disc. Tried to stop as soon as the scale was gone.

Thanks, that’s helpful!

 

[junkenstien]

On the last picture of the zenith it looks like you need to get the rust off before it pits any deeper.Got a lot of life left in it be ashame to let it deteriorate for the sake of looks.

 

[ithinkverydeeply]

Again thanks to everyone for all the helpful suggestions!
I have been making some good headway with these, going back and forth between sandpaper and a wire wheel.

I even uncovered a SP&S stamp on that Zenith.

I’m still wondering with some of these, how far to go?
For example the Black Prince that had such a thick scale on it is rather speckled. If I keep going on this Flint Edge it will be way more speckled that the BP.

Do I leave this Flint edge where it’s at?

 

[jblyttle]

I don't have any trouble with anything that you pictured, personally.

 

[crbnSteeladdict]

Again thanks to everyone for all the helpful suggestions!
I have been making some good headway with these, going back and forth between sandpaper and a wire wheel.



I even uncovered a SP&S stamp on that Zenith.

Spokane, Portland & Seattle Railway???

 

[ithinkverydeeply]

Spokane, Portland & Seattle Railway???

That would totally be it. Thank you!

 

[junkenstien]

Like them too that’s some nice ones.

 

[ithinkverydeeply]

Alright, I’m in the cut now and really getting some results that I’m happy with.

Here the GB in the middle is not cleaned:

After:

I found it helpful to clean the thick scale out of the eye by soaking paper towels in Evapo-Rust and wrapping them in plastic for 12 hours. After that a little round wire brush is all it took.

The polls were in pretty good shape and
since I’m just trying to preserve these right now and not necessarily restore or hang them, I didn’t bother grinding on them to square up the edges at this time.

I did uncovered a 5lb stamp on the Flinty!

 

[Square_peg]

I did uncovered a 5lb stamp on the Flinty!

A 5 lb. Flint Edge in nice condition! That'll make a helluvan axe.

 

[Yankee Josh]

I agree with square peg. That flint edge is NICE! That is a good way to clean out the eyes. I usually run a file through the eye a bunch of times and then use a small wire brush and gritty hand cleaner.
It's really nice that you pay such attention to detail. It really shows in your work. Beautiful!

 

[muleman77]

Those all look excellent!

 

[ithinkverydeeply]

Wow! That is high praise coming from you guys. Thank you!

Now that I have solidified my care for the average vintage axe may I draw on your experience again, if it’s not a bother, and circle back to my original question in regards to several axes that are exceptional for their history. Axes who’s value is not really in their condition.

Examples like the prototype undercutter axe from Allan Klenman that I posted the other day. It is quite rusty, you can make out that it was made out of a true-Temper and find a 4. But the value is purely in history of it so I’m hesitant to do anything to it.

This Bucker’s Axe is just a really beat up old 13” Plumb but the handle is what makes it so cool. The haft is also so fragile that it could not survive being rehung or maybe even being worked on.

These are more like artifacts. Do I clean them at all or will any cleaning ruin what they are?

 

[Yankee Josh]

Wow! That is high praise coming from you guys. Thank you!

Now that I have solidified my care for the average vintage axe may I draw on your experience again, if it’s not a bother, and circle back to my original question in regards to several axes that are exceptional for their history. Axes who’s value is not really in their condition.

Examples like the prototype undercutter axes from Allan Klenman that I posted the other day. It is quite rusty, you can make out that it was made out of a true-Temper and find a 4. But the value is purely in history of it so I’m hesitant to do anything to it.

This Bucker’s Axe is just a really beat up old 13” Plumb but the handle is what makes it so cool. The haft is also so fragile that it could not survive being rehung or maybe even worked on.

These are more like artifacts. Do I clean them at all or will any cleaning ruin what they are?

I would definitely just leave them as they are! Maybe a light oil to stop rust if they need it. That's what I'd do anyway. Like you said their value is in what they are. They're wonderful!