Can this be fixed?

Robert Erickson

Robert Erickson

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
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I'm in the process of finishing up my first commissioned knife and have found a crack in one of the scales. The wood is pacific yew, it was stabilized by K&G and the crack is filled with resin so I can't do the CA glue trick to fill a gap. Can it be fixed? I thought about trying to use an razor blade to chip out the resin. I hope I don't have to grind the scales off and start over. Of course the person wants it by Christmas.ImageUploadedByTapatalk1417562624.389129.jpg
 
I'd just grind it off... but I'm not a pro, heck I'm not even much of an amateur... maybe one of the pros has a different answer for you...
 
Maybe ask the customer what they think, maybe offer a small discount if it's agreeable? One prominent maker does sell "blems" but on the condition (gentleman's agreement) that the knife will not be resold. That makes sense because your name will be on it and the next guy may not expect the blemish.

If it were me I'd chisel that sucker off, but honestly, I don't know how much work that would be, or if it might compromise your ability to deliver in time.

I had to completely redesign and remake a sheath one time. It ended up costing me money in time and exotic skin, but you have one shot at doing excellent work, I'd take it.

Good luck.
 
Frank Niro said:
Well, if you were the one who was buying would you want it that way? Frank
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This is always what it comes down to for me. I've seen Nick Wheeler destroy his share of beautiful, labor intensive handles due to things like this. I haven't had to remove a handle yet but, I have no doubt it's coming. Scratches though...I think there's a gremlin in my house that puts a scratch on every knife on the day of delivery.

I digress; I would pull that off and replace it. Imagine you will learn a lot about how well your scales are attached.

Bob
 
I am a newb at knives, but have a lot of experience with wood and repairing it. I have also worked with a lot of wood and epoxy on some fine things that float. I am a builder by profession and build fine homes with all types of amazing woodwork. Damage happens.

I really like West System epoxy, and have used it quite a bit for repair work. From what I can see in the picture I believe you may be able to relieve the area of the crack and use some sanded scale material (especially if you have some scraps left) as an additive. I have had good experiences thickening epoxy a bit with something like micro balloons and adding sawdust from the same material as the repair. I typically like the epoxy to be the consistency of peanut butter and use slow hardener. Overfill the area, and when the epoxy is cured enough to allow some sanding take it down a bit. Once it is fully cured fair it completely. I would give it a shot before trying to remove the scale.

Folks never fully understand how well properly applied epoxy bonds until they try to take something apart. I used to like taking two 8' 2x2's and overlapping them 8" and bonding them with epoxy. No fillet or anything to add strength. Just two 1.5" x8" areas bonded together. Like a good weld, the wood failed somewhere other than the bond first.

I haven't worked in the field for years, but we have an amazing finish superintendent. I will ask him in the morning if he has any additional ideas.
 
Frank Niro said:
Well, if you were the one who was buying would you want it that way? Frank
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No I wouldn't. I was looking for guidance on possible remedies short of grinding the scales off which I'm prepared to do if no other remedy exists.

drysideshooter said:
I am a newb at knives, but have a lot of experience with wood and repairing it. I have also worked with a lot of wood and epoxy on some fine things that float. I am a builder by profession and build fine homes with all types of amazing woodwork. Damage happens.

I really like West System epoxy, and have used it quite a bit for repair work. From what I can see in the picture I believe you may be able to relieve the area of the crack and use some sanded scale material (especially if you have some scraps left) as an additive. I have had good experiences thickening epoxy a bit with something like micro balloons and adding sawdust from the same material as the repair. I typically like the epoxy to be the consistency of peanut butter and use slow hardener. Overfill the area, and when the epoxy is cured enough to allow some sanding take it down a bit. Once it is fully cured fair it completely. I would give it a shot before trying to remove the scale.
Click to expand...

Thanks I might as well give this a try. Let me know if you find out any other tricks.
 
Here is the deal.

You can spend hours monkeying with trying to repair that crack and what you will end up with is a scale with a repair that looks like a scale that has a repair....and then after all those hours of hard work it will wake you up in the middle of the night, night after night and then you can not take it anymore....

You will break it off and replace the scales.


Or you can avoid all the hours of drama and take off the scales and do it right in a fraction of the time.

That is the decision you have in front of you.

Now so you do not feel to bad... I once made a nodeless split can bamboo flyrod. Spent 40 hours in completing it. After it was completed I took it out to cast and I noticed one of the splces let go....

I then broke it into pieces because the goal was to make a flyrod the best I could and not a faulty blemished product.

The rod was $1000 value.

I would do it again in a minute.

You will feel so much better just removing those scales and do it over again.
 
I would lightly sand it and than fill it with a good 2 part epoxy and sand till it fills the surface. It may be visible, but not feelable.

Up to you.

Larry
Tinkerer
 
I have had to remove the scales on maybe two or three knives due to a flaw and I always felt better after I replaced the scales and finished the knife. Larry
 
Try to make the repair as practice for this type of situation. You might need to do this in the future. Then redo the handle. Or contact the buyer and be open with them and see how they feel explaining that you will gladly make the repair if the want you to.mit will all work out in the end?
 
I would probably listen to the experienced knife guys. I can tell you that we have made repairs in pieces of wood worth more than a hundred knife scales in multi million dollar homes and commercial projects like wineries and the flaw ended up being pretty much invisible, even to those that knew where it had been. Maybe for a knife scale its just not worth the time though. If you will sleep better I would definitely replace it.

On Edit:
That is a pretty wide area. I do think with a small burr on something like a flex shaft you could remove enough of the epoxy that is currently filling the void (I am assuming this is something that sanding revealed and not an actual split that opened up), and make a repair that would be all but undectible and permanent. The most you risk is not being happy with the repair and possibly learn how to tackle one better in the future. You are out the time spent and end up replacing the scale.

If time is tight and you are nervous, just replace it.
 
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I build custom guitars, and times like those I see as opportunities that you define who you are as a craftsman. Everyone is different, and there isn't a perfectly correct answer. For me, I am not ok performing a fix regardless of how well it would be concealed. That decision has cost me a chunk of money and time before, but I see it as worth it to my learning and to my customers build. I am open with my customers about it too, and I find they identify value in that, and it establishes very solid customer relationships.
 
Replacing scales or handles is part of knife making. If you are not happy with it it is doubtful a customer will be happy with it. Every knife maker will have to replace handles from time to time when using natural material it is just part of the process. Like has been said scales with a fixed crack will always looks like scales with a fixed crack. It will be cheaper in the long run to bit it and take them off now instead of spending time trying to repair then take them off later.
 
Thanks for all your responses guys. I'll replace the scales. To your response drysideshooter it is currently filled with epoxy resin from the stabilization process not a void that opened during finishing. So I don't think it's a structural issue.
 
Replacing the handles is the right choice.

For you info - The resin used in stabilizing is not epoxy resin...it is an acrylic resin.
 
There is still part of me that believes if you work with natural materials, and materials like stabalized wood that are a composite, a craftsman needs to learn to work with imperfect or flawed materials and make them perfect. In this case maybe replacing the scales makes more sense from a time standpoint, and since the experience/skill to make a virtually perfect repair isn't there.

We routinely cut tool steel for custom trim profiles, and some profiles take several steps to get to the final profile. Often small flaws will show up in something like a 16' piece if complex crown. Maybe its been run through three steps before the flaw is uncovered. Depending on where it is, it can be cut out and the shorter pieces used. Other times that isn't possible. With some species, the raw material is expensive, as are a few trips through milling. I have seen flaws far worse than what you have on that scale be made to disappear. I am extremely picky. Super anal and probably some times unreasonable with my expectations. Some of the statements that you would always see the repair are absolutely not true. Maybe in knife making it is true because its infrequent enough that it makes more sense to replace scales than to spend the time necessary to develop skills for an infrequent need.
 
In anything I do I look at it like this.... Which do I want to have more character? Me or the object I'm working on? I will always choose to redo something that isn't right rather than try to gussy up something substandard.
 
I see the subject in this way. We are artisans and to repair a defect is a skill to sharpen like others in the trade.
Redoing the handle is an option, but getting the chance to learn how to repair a void it is not necessary bad. Like many other things if you don't try enough it is too much easy to say it can't be done or that the results are ugly and detectable....i mean the fact the first time i tryied to make my guard/ricasso joint it was not perfect, nor my first soldering of stainless steel.
Murphy's law states that if you are going to repair (for pratice) with the intent of redoing the handle anyway, the repair will be perfect... ;)
In the end just do what really satisfy you, good luck!

Stefano
 
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