Can traditionals save knives?

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May 30, 2009
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Or knife rights anyway... There's a nice overdramatic title for you.

My minds been meandering, there are regularly threads on people overreacting to knives, sheeple hating knives, etc., etc..

Like anything else people's first, gut, reaction to what they see is the key. The way our minds work, when we see something we categorize it based on constructs we've learned.

I'm not sure of the word for the concept I've been pondering, it could be gestalt (my word of the week :)), it could be meme, it could just be impression set.

As an example, in the 50's there was a "switchblade scare" in congress. Switchblades were tied into juvenile delinquency and there was a drive to ban them. This was your typical vote getting drive. You know, make up a danger then offer to save people from it. Still, the publicity made a lasting impression on our collective conciousness.

When people see a switchblade opening there is a certain set of images and feelings which will be evoked *as a whole* (thus gestalt as an attempt at a word to describe it). People my age will flash on the movie Blackboard Jungle, but this is a whole set of impressions and is part of our collective culture. There are bits and pieces in movies and media everywhere and even younger folks have it in their head.

From a song I like.... "flash blade in the ghetto night, Rudie's looking for a fight". It evokes knife fights and a whole set of images and feelings all at once.

This is how our minds categorize and pigeonhole things without even realizing it, we want to put everything in a box and we often perceive things as a whole. Our analytical reasoning is linear but our "gut" is parallel processing.

Another gestalt, meme, whatever which is more recent and less developed was given to us by 9-11. A group of guys with box cutters changed our nation. Never mind that the policy had been to give in to hijackers and that the hijackers knew that and used it. We now have a generalized "fear knives" gestalt in our collective conciousness.

When someone has a knife out and open with one hand suddenly, these two "gestalts" (at least) hit a person before they think analyticaly as their mind attempts to categorize what just happened. If they have no other interests or impressions involved it is no wonder that in many cases their mind says "keep on eye on this" at the least.

So, what's the point of all this gobblety gook? There are other impression sets related to knives. When you first take out a traditional people flash to Tom Sawyer, their Grandpa, someone cutting a fishing line, nice stuff. We've all seen or posted things about traditionals "evoking a simpler time" and similar thoughts. That's their "gestalt".

When people see a traditional that gestalt will very often counterbalance the 9-11 gestalt. There is no switchblade gestalt so you often get a positive reaction. An SAK has a gestalt of first aid kits, boy scouts, and nail files so it's alrighty too.

A Buck Folding Hunter has a bit of a redneck, pick up truck, deer hunter gestalt and thus you get a "fear reaction" somewhere in the middle. (now don't be upset, I'm a bit of a redneck myself)

I've found that a "modern traditional" with say, a metal handle, screw construction, etc. will evoke more of a fear reaction than a true traditional with bone or stag handles and all those accoutrements which say "grandpa knife". This, even when the knife is the same size and is two handed opening.

Peoples minds work by perceiving whole objects and complete actions and putting them into little boxes based on holistic notions they have learned (or been fed). All the quaint, eloquent notions we have been been posting about "the old days" might just be the meme we need to save knives.

Or I could just be going off the deep end... (goes back to sharpening his Barlow).
 
I don't think knives need saving. Probably more knives sold monthly today than at anytime in man's history.
 
Knives and guns....flying of the shelves; no Gestalt needed. Since you asked OP, I'm afraid the sum of all your experiences is one drumstick short of a picnic.;)
 
I'm more scared of other knife nuts.. because they buy up all the knives I want before I can get them :D
 
Like anything, especially with knives, it's how you use it in public that makes the difference. I have no problem using any of my traditional knives in public. But, I use them, and then put them away. Like any tool, when it is used as intended it isn't scary, but when played with (flicked open and closed over and over with no sense of purpose) then you should expect some looks and maybe some words.
 
I don't know, I think the OP makes a good point. Any time I pull out one of my framelocks at the office, whether to cut open mail or to cut up an apple, I get the same response from anyone that happens to witness the occurrence…"Ooo, you have a knife!", or "wow, I didn't see you as THAT type of person", or "hey Rambo!". All of this despite the fact that most of my framelock knives are of the smaller type - a 3" blade or thereabouts. But I know that those jokes and comments are really just a guise for fear, regardless of the fact that they don't perceive me personally as a threat. However, when I happen to be carrying one of my traditional slip joints and I pull that out for whatever need presents itself, it's usually met with, "cool knife", or "oh, that's handy - glad you had that on you!", or "hey, can I borrow that knife for a minute?"

The reality is, people are conditioned to think a certain way, just as the OP so eloquently stated and that's just a fact - like it or not. I carry my "tactical" knives way less these days because of it. It's annoying to deal with and I also don't enjoy evoking that reaction in folks.

It's true…there probably are more knives sold today than at any point in history, but that's because there are more knives and knife makers out there and much more varieties available than there ever has been. Knife collecting has become more of a hobby than it used to be. Remember…tactical knives for the consumer market have only really been around since the 80's and mass production really didn't kick in until the early 90's.
 
IMO a 5" tactical folder that someone just had to buy and just had to EDC is way overkill for the office anyways. I personally don't like to go to work with anything that could be misconstrued as a "weapon" or interpreted as such and violate any kind of company policy. Traditionals don't raise many eyebrows. However to go a step further it seems like a failure if those that may encounter an individual using the knife in the office don't know that person well enough to be comfortable around them when the knife is deployed for its true intention as a tool. Work relationships are often under emphasized. Maybe I am gullable but there are many of my coworkers who I would trust with my life if necessary so I don't fear them using knives or vice versa. Of course at my office we are the more rational scientific types so YMMV. Just my 2 cents
 
I don't think knives need saving. Probably more knives sold monthly today than at anytime in man's history.


Well, I'm not exactly positive that's true. Per capita I'll bet more knives used to be sold. You have collectors now who buy lottsa knives but all guys used to carry a pocket knife. Anyways, I meant save knife *rights*.

I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

OK, I *am* crazy, but I was crazier when I was Jung.

Alright, that was a bit of a rant, and prolly boring which is much worse than crazy.

If you read up on the history of switchblades a bit you will see that knife over reaction is not new.

How many of you remember the feeling when you saw your first one hand opener being flicked open, and then made sure you got one. I did. I thought they were really neat, gave me a little thrill.

That's not "bad", they *are* neat, and handy as heck. They do evoke a feeling.

So do trads.

How 'bout them SeaHawks.
 
Victorinox alone sells something like 3 million knives every month and those ain't collectors. People will carry pocket knives as long as they need a cutting tool.
 
Victorinox alone sells something like 3 million knives every month (EVERY MONTH) and those ain't collectors.

Yeah, you're probably right. I stand corrected. I wish we could get back to having the attitudes from when every man (and boy) had a pocket knife though.
 
we have the same problem in Canada. Second biggest country on the planet with a tiny pop base and yet people stare at me for carrying a BKC monochrome. I grew up in the country and oft wonder where our sense of the frontier disappeared? It's a knife for pete's sake. I am not a criminal, but a former scout and outdoorsman, but I am being painted as one...
 
There is more variety in knives now than I have ever seen in my lifetime. Knife Rights should include all knives, even those terrible switchblades as being legal to own and carry.

There as lid for every pot as my grandmother used to tell me when discussing girls when I was very young. Well, there is a suitable knife for every pot or pocket based on personal tastes and interests.
 
Dr. Michael savage coined the term sheeple, they are infact the problem, not knives. People are scared of knives because they don't understand them. 9 times out of 10 people are using a dull knife, a dangerous knife, people cut themselves and a mistrust develops.
 
Do you truly believe that? Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Ask Jack or any of our other British friends if the powers that be are content to stop at limiting us to slipjoints. There was a movement in the UK a while back calling for the ban of long pointed kitchen knives. That's right, the 8" chef's knife on your countertop would've been made illegal, all in the interest of public safety.

As for me I carry what I want within the confines of the law. Doesn't matter if it's a slipjoint in my pocket, a clipped Sebenza, a puukko on my belt or a khukuri strapped to my pack. As far as I am concerned it's much ado about nothing. I'll use my knife as needed without any flourish or attempt to make an impression. Let others worry, that's their problem (no one's made a fuss to me yet, and I live in California). I am confident that I know the law better than any busybody who cares to complain.

- Christian
 
There is more variety in knives now than I have ever seen in my lifetime. Knife Rights should include all knives, even those terrible switchblades as being legal to own and carry.

There as lid for every pot as my grandmother used to tell me when discussing girls when I was very young. Well, there is a suitable knife for every pot or pocket based on personal tastes and interests.


You make a very good point. No knives are bad I like them all. When switchblades were banned it was mostly a political move to garner votes.

Anyone has the right to carry any knife which is legal, and probably should be able to carry many not presently legal. Most knife violence is an un-premeditated crime of passion and involves a kitchen knife. (And if a kitchen knife were not at hand it would involve a baseball bat, or an ax, or a sharp stick)

One handers now have a feeling evoked by them, one hung on them in large part by the anti-switchblade mania. There are many other buttons knives can press as well. The feelings evoked by traditionals are some which could be a positive force in knives. That doesn't mean that anything should be illegal, with the possible exception of political scare tactics.

A previous poster said he was carrying slipjoints more because it was just so much easier. That's about where I'm at myself. Maybe even to the point of thinking them a positive, almost educational thing.
 
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I love slip joints and tend to be moving ever steadily toward them exclusively for years now if you take a non-biased look at my knives. But I don't think it appropriate to limit knives to a certain style. Politically most limits are with blade length versus design. Even switchblades are legal to own, but not to carry in my state. They sell lots of them....
 
I very much agree. My OP was rambling musings on peoples reactions and to be honest the sets of impressions and feelings an object or an action can become imbued with. They are real and maybe can be used in our favor.

The law and what you are limited to are (hopefully) another thing.
 
I'm more scared of other knife nuts.. because they buy up all the knives I want before I can get them :D

Oh the horror:eek:
Now that is a rational fear!
They have to be saved........................................for me.
 
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