Can you live comfortably on 60k a year?

 
leghog said:
You can do precisely that. Comparing compensation is done quite often.

http://militarypay.defense.gov/repo...ting_Research_Papers_Files/SR04_Chapter_1.pdf

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-10-561R

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/82xx/doc8271/06-29-compensation.pdf

http://www.rand.org/pubs/issue_papers/IP205/index2.html

http://www.cna.org/sites/default/fi...ivilian Compensation Packages D0016569.A4.pdf
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You seem pretty great at taking a tiny snippet of my posts and taking them out of context.

If you can't figure out the point I'm trying to make them I'm afraid I cant break it down any further for you. Thank you for your service.
 
celtic11 said:
You seem pretty great at taking a tiny snippet of my posts and taking them out of context.
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It's not out of context. You stated, "IMO opinion you cannot compare the salary of the enlisted to those of us civilians.". I simply pointing out that not only can such compensation be compared, that very comparison is done quite often (DoD does so not less than every four years as required by Title 37 USC) for any number of reasons.

The first link above (repeated below) ought to shine light on the subject.

http://militarypay.defense.gov/repo...ting_Research_Papers_Files/SR04_Chapter_1.pdf
 
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leghog said:
It's not out of context. You stated, "IMO opinion you cannot compare the salary of the enlisted to those of us civilians.". I simply pointing out that not only can such compensation be compared, that very comparison is done quite often (DoD does so not less than every four years as required by Title 37 USC) for any number of reasons.

The first link above (repeated below) ought to shine light on the subject.

http://militarypay.defense.gov/repo...ting_Research_Papers_Files/SR04_Chapter_1.pdf
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OK maybe what I said wasn't worded properly for you to understand what I was trying to say.

If you made $50,000/year but had free housing and utilities, or were paid $1500/month towards towards those things, you'd be living substantially better than a civilian also making $50,000/year strictly in terms of income.

My brother, who I've referred in my other posts, has a similar family to mine. His wife doesn't work. My wife and I together, make more on the paycheck than he does but his family lives more "comfortably" than mine in terms of income vs debt/bills.

I can't put a price on the major inconveniences that being in the military entails and I'm not trying to. I also realize it is possible to compare a salary in then military to a salary in the "real world.". You obviously are aware of how to do that correctly. Most of the posters on this board do not, myself included.

If a Sgt with 10 years experience making $50k/year gets out of the service with zero benefits and gets a civilian job making $50k/year, but now has to pay $1200/month for rent and utilities, that person is not going to live as "comfortably" in the civilian world as he/she did in the military. Again, strictly in terms of income vs expenses.

Does that make any more sense?
 
celtic11 said:
...If you made $50,000/year but had free housing and utilities, or were paid $1500/month towards towards those things, you'd be living substantially better than a civilian also making $50,000/year strictly in terms of income...
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Scan the link I provided above (page 15). On average an enlisted man will serve ~ten years before his compensation will equate to a civilian earning $60. Most do not serve that long.
 
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leghog said:
Scan the link I provided above (page 15). On average an enlisted man will serve ~ten years before his compensation will equate to a civilian earning $60. Most do not serve that long.
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That's not what we are talking about. The poster I replied to said a Sgt in the military makes $50,000 annually. I don't know if that's true or false. I'm just replying to that quote.

I will use the terminology from the link you gave

If that $50k/year figure is BP (or base pay) then what I said stands which is that that person wouldn't have to pay rent/mortgage and utilities which would probably run cost the average civilian another $15,000 annually.

If that figure was RMC (real military compensation) which includes base housing allowance as well as a couple other forms of compensation, then I apologize for misunderstanding.

You clearly and expectedly know much more about this topic than I do, but I feel like your arguing a bunch of different things than my main point which was that $50k BP in the military does not equal $50k civilian pay.
 
It certainly translates when you have to live and raise a family on it. Then add the packing up and moving every few years and the years of family separation. In 20 years of active duty, we lived in fifteen houses (and most came with out of pocket expenses), plus I spent about 1/3 of my time deployed/separated from my family --- that's the part that doesn't translate to the "real world" well. But for so many of the 1% who choose to serve or the 15-20% of that 1% who choose to make a career of it, that is the "real world".
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Civilians have to raise families on their pay too. No disrespect to service members, but many civilians have a similar job-related lifestyle - frequent moves, time spent away from their families, etc. And they do it with much less than military pay, and without any reimbursements for moving expenses. Not that you guys don't deserve every penny of it...

I browsed those links briefly but couldn't find a simple dollar value for the pay and benefits received by service members. Some of the government benefits are difficult to put a price on such as preferential hiring, GI Bill benefits, post-service benefits received through the VA, and the value of college credits earned during military training classes.

My guess is that a civilian would have to earn close to $90,000 to be paid comparably with a serviceman earning $50,000. Housing allowances, health care, retirement benefits, V.A. benefits, GI Bill, clothing allowances, on-base dining facilities, on-base entertainment, moving/relocation allowances, discounted groceries and household items at the PX, tax breaks...
 
Bob W said:
Civilians have to raise families on their pay too. No disrespect to service members, but many civilians have a similar job-related lifestyle - frequent moves, time spent away from their families, etc. And they do it with much less than military pay, and without any reimbursements for moving expenses. Not that you guys don't deserve every penny of it...

I browsed those links briefly but couldn't find a simple dollar value for the pay and benefits received by service members. Some of the government benefits are difficult to put a price on such as preferential hiring, GI Bill benefits, post-service benefits received through the VA, and the value of college credits earned during military training classes.

My guess is that a civilian would have to earn close to $90,000 to be paid comparably with a serviceman earning $50,000. Housing allowances, health care, retirement benefits, V.A. benefits, GI Bill, clothing allowances, on-base dining facilities, on-base entertainment, moving/relocation allowances, discounted groceries and household items at the PX, tax breaks...
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$60K compensation is $60K compensation (compensation not pay --- the comparators consider compensation as pay AND allowances AND benefits), and less than $60K is less than $60K.

Nearly every American had or has the choice to try to earn that compensation in the military. As of late only a tiny percentage select to do so. And only a tiny percent of them choose to stay to retirement. It's an equal opportunity institution, but few choose to avail themselves of the opportunity.
 
My point was that "compensation" for members of the military goes way beyond just their paycheck.

I don't have a grudge about it.
 
$60k a year where I live in Southern California..... you can live comfortably if you're good at budgeting and you rent an apartment with roommates. But if you want to own a house, have a decently nice car, and have enough disposable income for toys? MMM no.

As long as you're not located in California or New York.... $60k a year will allow you to live comfortably in most states. My buddy moved to Texas a few years ago and he said you can buy a house there for $80,000. Here where I live, the average house price is $500k to 1 mill.
 
I do a lot of financial work for average people. Almost everyone spends just a little more than they earn. If you earn 60k your take-home will be around 48k ($4000/month). Monthly expenses will probably be:
rent 1000 (funds left: $3000)
Food 350 (funds left: $2650)
Cable/phone/internet 150 (funds left: $2500)
cell 100 (funds left: $2400)
health insurance 250 ($2150)
car 400-500 ($1650)
Fuel 250 ($1400)
utilities 200 ($1200)
edu. loan 250 ($950)
beer/guns/Knives/"toys" $200 ($750)
then save $500 and invest $250

Guys, do you see this as a realistic budget? I'm basing it on a middle class, Atlanta area lifestyle.
 
As far as the military goes, it really pays to do something like computers. I have a friend who served 23 years, and retired as a sgt. now works at a big company doing defense work. He earns about 100k, plus gets about 2500 per month retirement from DOD.
 
Bob W said:
My point was that "compensation" for members of the military goes way beyond just their paycheck.

I don't have a grudge about it.
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And my point is many soldiers make the equivalent of the $60K or less accounting for that compensation beyond just their paycheck.
 
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